Stuttering At Work: How A Childhood Memory Transformed A Career

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

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I'm Maya Chupkov and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it one conversation at a time.

Hello, Maya Chupkov here, your host of Proud Stutter. Today on the pod, we have Samar Faruqi. He's a person who stutters, he's an executive for one of the largest digital software companies in the world, SAP. And yeah, let's, let's dive right into, into the conversation. So Samar, let's, let's start from the beginning as I like to do a lot.

Can you talk to us about a childhood memory or memories that stick out to, to, to, to you?

Sammar Faruqi:

I think there's three, four kind of key sort of memories or themes that stand out. Uh, one is, you know, as a younger child when you start school and remember, you know, uh, starting at elementary school. Uh, and people ask you your name or they'll ask you this or ask you that what your favorite food is.

The teacher asks you to answer a question and you hesitate, right? Or you're trying to get the words out and, and you kind of, you know, it's not coming out. You're stumbling over your first few words and, uh, the kind of mixed reactions you would get and the faces of my teachers or my, uh, school friends, you know, I still burn into my retina, you know, It would vary, you know, some would be sympathetic and would just wait because maybe they they can see that you're struggling would allow you that time and others would, you know, within half a second have already reached the decision that, oh, okay, you know, uh, you know, You're not someone who can speak or express themselves and will start mocking you.

Uh, I'm afraid, you know, in the schoolyard, people can be very cruel and, uh, uh, the mocking barbs and, uh, the name calling and all of that is very vivid. Uh, the expression on my teacher's faces, either of sympathy or of amusement, uh, hurt. It really hurt. I remember that. Vividly, uh, the kind of bemused laugh you would get from some teachers.

The reaction to that, which is then kind of creates an emotional burden, especially on a child and I'm an adult now, and I can obviously rationalize that, but when people react to you in that way, especially a negative way, uh, that can create a reinforcement loop. To think, Oh, okay. Uh, maybe I'm not as smart or maybe I'm not clever or maybe I am, uh, whatever they're calling me.

Right. And those sorts of kind of hurtful barbs, uh, do, do stand out. I don't remember a lot from my childhood in association with my stuttering. And I think it's because I've. I've kind of blocked out a lot of those harmful memories from childhood because they were so painful. So, so yeah, it's, it just speaks to the importance of, you know, reaching kids when they're young and, you know, trying to prevent that reinforcement of negativity.

Maya:

Um, and before we recorded, you also said you had another. Another memory that you wanted to share.

Sammar:

Uh, so I had to stand up in class and deliver a speech in front of everyone and with minimal preparation. And, uh, I tried to express my opinion on that particular topic. And I remember again, the negative reaction from, from the teacher, uh, who kind of laughed, she didn't laugh out loud, but she kind of had this smirk across her face as I was trying to express myself.

Um, and okay. He just smirked through my whole delivery and said, okay, told me to sit down. Uh, remember that vividly that hurt that really hurt. And then when, uh, I think when the lesson finished and she got up and left her notes on the table and I was exiting the classroom, I had to look at her notes and she'd put against my name, not very articulate C minus.

That moment, I remember so vividly, it filled me with an intense passion never to fail again. No one will ever tell me that I cannot speak and I made it my mission in life to be a professional communicator and thank you very much, uh, Mrs. Cumbo. I don't know where you are now, uh, but I, I made it my absolute mission in life. That I will stand up in that boardroom and people will listen to me and no one will ever mock my delivery again. Uh, and so I set about that as a mission ever since and, uh, that's what I've done.

Maya:

Wow, that is so inspiring that you took such a traumatic event and made it and kind of flipped it around and it motivated you.

I think that's, that's amazing and, um, it, it, it sounds like. You have a lot of motivation and determination.

Sammar:

One thing I realized early on, uh, was that yes, as, as human beings, we are social creatures, right? We have to communicate even those people are fluent and absolutely fluent, right? They all have challenges in every arena of life, frankly, and that also comes back to communication, right?

So communication, uh, doesn't only mean, you know. Being challenged by a starter, but also be just the, uh, ability to articulate feelings. Having that ability is always going to be important in any aspect of what it is that we do, right? Whether you're on the sports field or whether you're in school or in business or anything, you're going to have to communicate, right?

So I think we can all recognize that. And so one shouldn't feel disconnected from your sense of ambition, whatever it may be. Right. So yes, it doesn't have to be public speaking, or we want to be a corporate Titan, um, but we all need that mix right in our bag of tricks. So definitely. Right. Number one. Um, so I'd say to anyone out there listening, you know, whatever your ambition is, focus on that and don't let Stato or anyone else says, hold you back.

Maya:

All right. So you have this like big, fancy job, or, or at least that's kind of how I, I, I V V V view it taking like. Like pulling back the curtain a little bit, like you're a person who stutters in a job that I can imagine is probably stressful at times. Um, and you're an executive, so I'm sure there's a lot Of pressure that comes with that and you have to speak a lot. So how do you Navigate your stutter through This job and how you were kind of um climbing that ladder

Sammar:

so, you know, I had a stutter as a child and throughout my teens and You know, my job is all about talking, you know to to colleagues and customers and That is something that actually I always wanted to do.

Right. And early on when I was setting out on my career journey, I always envisioned myself as being the person standing in the boardroom, holding the pen and had this vision in my mind that everyone would be looking at me. And as a child, I was denied that opportunity because, you know, I had a bad stutter and, you know, people would, uh, frankly mock you and wouldn't give you the opportunity to speak or give someone else a turn and that kind of thing.

And so this kind of drip, drip, drip effect, uh, throughout my formative years, and I grew up in the UK, as you might guess from my accent, uh, affected me in the sense that I didn't want to lose that sense of passion or ambition to say, I want to communicate. Right. I have ideas. I have, uh, a great way of explaining things. So one of my, uh, talents, if I can call it that, um, is being able to explain complex subjects in a simple way. Um, and I found my niche in technology in particular because, you know, I, I grew up, uh, you know, watching Star Trek and Star Wars and all that great stuff. And I was inspired by, you know, computers and so on.

And I was like, great, you know, I want to work with technology. You know, this is a bright future for everybody. Um, how can I make that happen? What I found was aside from an interest in the technology itself, you know, programming and all of that, uh, I was more interested in talking about it. And what I realized as I progressed, uh, you know, uh, throughout university, then into my early stages of my career, actually, this is a very valid niche, right?

So as I climbed the career ladder, uh, Throughout the stages of my progression, I was always confronted by this thing in the back of my mind of having a stutter.

Maya:

So you, you speak very smoothly, like I, um, I don't really hear. This, um, you stuttered too much and we talked about this a little bit before recording, but you had done speech therapy early in life, right?

Sammar:

The intervention of my parents who recognized this early on, uh, was. Was very relevant, and I think it wasn't something that they were confronted with before. I think my father had a slight stutter but wasn't enough to hold him back from anything. My mother famously famous communicator in her own right. Very well known for her fine speaking skills and also professional communicator I think she recognized this. And so she sought out the appropriate help, which, you know, wasn't necessarily. Easy to find, right? So this, this took some time. So finding that help. And then I remember, uh, you know, then meeting, uh, a speech therapist, having an assessment.

I remember that vividly going in a sympathetic environment, someone sitting with you, listening, uh, and then chatting with my mom, doing some sort of diagnosis. And then I think over a period of two to three years, having regular. Uh, sessions. I remember all of those very vividly, uh, and the name of my, uh, speech therapist and Mrs. Ferugia. I still remember her, uh, you know, so very grateful to, uh, her support and her sympathy. And with speech therapy, I learned the right techniques. Of breathing and communication and enunciation almost had to break down my, uh, my entire approach, uh, to talking, you know, you have to learn almost again. And it wasn't, it's not a problem per se, as explained to me necessarily of, uh, not that you can't speak, which is what people would have told you before, uh, or that somehow you are you're stupid or whatever. It's that actually your brain is moving faster than other people and you can't get the words out. So, uh, the gearing between your brain's ability to process information, form ideas and get them out of your mouth. And I'm sorry, I'm not speech therapist. So I'm sure someone might disagree with me, but broadly, this was my understanding, or this is how I was coached. Is that these two things out of sync, that is the motor parts, the mechanics of your, uh, speech mechanism.

And so you're able to think at speed, but that speed is moving, uh, faster than your ability to transmit that to your nerves, uh, and get the sound out.

Maya:

Just listening to you, it makes me think that I wish my speech therapist had explained. Everything that you just explained because there was so much pressure on me to thought that something was wrong with me And you know, I felt like I you know, do it, you know and all that stuff And if it I could just know that it wasn't Sometimes just out of your control and it was something wrong with like my body.

I probably would have felt differently Can you talk a little bit more about? The, the techniques

Sammar:

training was very important early on the support I had with my family in particular, he made financial sacrifices as well, uh, to make sure I got the right help, um, and the right therapy to help me understand and learn these techniques of breathing of pausing of speaking so that you create the space.

In your mind to allow the sequencing of communication to flow, right? So this becomes more of a performance and it's native in all human beings, right? We all have this. Uh, but if you like, you know, uh, when you're born, perhaps it's a little bit mis tuned, right? Um, and so this tuning was something that I benefited from.

Maya:

That's so interesting. I love how you. Said it, it's like allowing you to open up this part of yourself. And, you know, I, it reminds me a lot of what I learned in speaking class and I think, you know, there's this nuance that I, I wanna make sure I talk about in that, you know, you can. Like, for me, I'm getting more and more comfortable with stuttering. At the same time, I think it's helpful for me to know, you know, the speaking skills so I can communicate certain topics when I'm on stage. And so I think those two things can exist. Um, and I think, um, you were going to run through some of the techniques you use, um, which we talked a little bit about before the recording, but I think, you know, there are probably a lot of listeners out there who do want to learn techniques. So, so yeah, to take it away,

Sammar:

the main thing, the main fundamental thing was about breathing. So as my speech therapist taught me, uh, part of the diagnosis was that I was speaking immediately or trying to speak, uh, when my lungs were empty. So by habits of the breathing pattern, for example, I wasn't taking in enough air, right?

So as she explained, as I vividly remember. You know, our voice box, our throat, our voice is a wind instrument, right? Just as much as, you know, trombone, right? So if you don't have enough puff to expel air through a trombone, you won't hear anything. And so what tends to happen is that if you haven't breathed enough, uh, there's enough air in the first place for it to come out. Uh, it's not going to make the right noise. And then in the rush to speak, you might push the air out too hard. And then your body's trying to catch up and then your tongue and everything else kind of gets caught up in it. Right? So the technique, the primary technique was to learn how to breathe. So to take a breath in before one speaks and then hold the breath. And here he talking about microseconds, but you hold the breath slightly and then breathe out again. So as, as I, as I was taught, you know, take a balloon. Uh, if you inflate the balloon, you're going to let a little bit of air out first, right? Just let the air out so that your lungs and your diaphragm are in a relaxed position.

Then you speak now the delivery of that. Once you've kind of mastered that technique. Gives the impression to the recipient that you are being deliberate. You are being considered. You are thinking about what you're saying, because there's a slight pause. But that slight pause is also the time it takes you to catch up your breathing.

So you're catching your breathing. So, just like any good politician or anyone else you might see on TV, the masterful ones are going to take a breath before they respond. Hold your, if you watch, you'll see them do it and then speak the ones who are reacting right off the gut and shouting will have a different kind of, uh, uh, Message or content, right?

It doesn't then come across as a so considered. So that's almost a side benefit of that. So the primary technique is breathing and then slowing down. So the other aspect of that was, okay, you formed your thought, you know what you want to say. Now that you're breathing is control number one, number two is then speak a little bit slower than what you're used to. So let your words out, perhaps, you know, kind of, you know, 0. 5, 0. 8, uh, X slower than what, how you normally speak. And as I'm speaking now, uh, to you, as this is a podcast, I'm also deliberately speaking a little bit slower than I would normally. So that the emphasis. The enunciation from word from word can be understood more clearly if we were sitting together opposite one another in a coffee shop, I might be speaking a little bit quicker.

The technique comes to breathing, relaxing your lungs, letting the air out slightly slowly and speaking a little bit slower. So that gives you time to emphasize the message that you want to give that's effectively the primary technique. And then once you've kind of mastered that, then you've got the clear flow of, Oh, okay, great. I'm going to move from sentence to sentence, paragraph to paragraph. And then by speaking slightly slower, that's also giving your brain time to form the thoughts and catch up. Right? So in that way, your stream of consciousness, your stream of words, your stream of communication, uh, becomes more even. So you have all these techniques for when you're kind of in these in person situations.

Maya:

Um, did, did you have to adapt, um, during the pandemic,

Sammar:

pandemic hits and, uh, you know, before the pandemic in my job, I was doing a lot of travel. Now, suddenly that stopped because of the pandemic. Um, and now I had to do everything remotely. I had to do it over Zoom, like I'm talking to you now, or I had to do it, uh, you know, online.

Um. And so then I had to learn a few different techniques, because what I had done is mastered this kind of in person, talking and presentation skills, holding a microphone in front of an audience and all of that performance, but then doing it on Camera looking at a blank screen is very challenging, so I had to learn to do that again and also master my stutter and then also started creating content on LinkedIn and YouTube.

Um, so recording myself, uh, and doing presentations for that and doing other webinars and stuff like that. So it's a different category of Different style of presentation, and I had to, uh, find a different approach to handle my stutter, right? Because you have other crutches when you're speaking in person, you can see the reaction of people and the environment and all that kind of thing.

When you are just talking to a screen, it's far more difficult, right? In other ways. Easy in some ways, harder in others. You can't see everyone in the room. That can be a problem sometimes, especially if everyone has the cameras off. You have got no reaction and no feedback, but equally, you know, you're trying to project. Through a microphone, which is, uh, sometimes also hard.

Maya:

And are you open about your stutter at work, like to your, your, your colleagues and your, your clients?

Sammar:

It's not something that I kind of openly shared in my career progression, I guess, only in the last couple of years. It's something that I had, um, Learn to master quote unquote, uh, you know, to allow me to progress in my career, you know, in progressing in management consulting, it's all about talking at the end of the day, right? You are sharing ideas with people, uh, whatever the context is. So you're talking to people. Uh, so. Having kind of mastered it, um, this was then I just progressed without anyone knowing it wasn't something that would often come up only, uh, in very certain situations or entrusting situation might mention, Oh, you know, I have a stutter or, and then people are, people are genuinely shocked.

Really? You know, um, I in my own organization. I've been a master coach for public speaking. And so I'll tell people, you know, I grew up with a severe stutter and they're absolutely shocked, right? Uh, but on occasion, you know, it's still there, right? And I can't help it. If, uh, in a meeting, it might come out.

So it's just us, you know, not always in 100 percent control, right? I'm not saying that you can eliminate it entirely. So it's still there. Uh, if someone as I'm speaking now. Uh, they might detect the odd occasional stutter. It's still there. I can't eliminate it 100%. Uh, but I don't necessarily need to, if the communication is clear enough.

And if you listen to anyone else, uh, a politician or an actor or anyone else, uh, on TV, uh, or on social media talking, you'll also might hear the same nuances. They never quite leave you. Uh, but it's something that's. You know, with, uh, I think the right motivation and focus, uh, we can help structure and address. So that's kind of how I've tackled it at work.

Maya:

As you were talking about the techniques before, um, I was thinking of, of, of something. Um, I had, I had, um, I met a friend last night and I hadn't seen him in like nine years. We studied abroad. Together in Israel and, um, and you know, that was the time, the before times when I didn't, I wasn't really open about my stutter and so I like asked him about it and he was like, Oh yeah, like I always noticed it, but I just like, it didn't really. Like it didn't really Like he didn't really like dwell on it. It was just like, oh, that's just maya and he actually said like he really enjoys talking to me because I do have like I do have this like I guess chill way of speaking of just like not Talking fast and it's just like a very like um, I forgot the word he used but he just enjoys talking to me because it's just You know, it's slowed down and one of his biggest pet peeves is when people just talk fast.

And so I thought that was really awesome because I've never gotten that compliment before of like how talking to me was actually calming which kind of Surprise me. But anyway, um, do you have anything you wanted to say that you haven't had a chance to say yet?

Sammar:

Your ability, your talent, your thoughts, your creativity are all absolutely there and valid. And I would never let anyone rob you of that, uh, as my English teacher tried to, uh, whether she meant to or not, I would never do that to another human being. Um, and to find it worked out for me one way, I took it the right way, uh, not in the way that she intended. Um, and so, you know, I want to share that message with people that, uh, where you do have to confront, uh, I'm afraid the cruelty on occasion. Uh, use that to your advantage 'cause you're smarter than me.

Maya:

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on the, the show. SS Samara. Like this has been such a lovely conversation and yeah, I, I just, I, I really, really, I appreciate you sharing your experiences, your insights. I think people are really going to enjoy listening.

Sammar:

Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Maya. And I'm happy to share that. And if anyone wants to connect with me, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm sure Maya will share the links to my profile. I'm more than happy if anyone wants to reach out with any questions or follow up chat, more than happy to have a chat with anyone, uh, about this topic.

I think it's incredibly important. And just to share Maya, I think you're doing a fantastic job, uh, with the Proud Stutterer. It's really important. I think it really adds value to people's lives. So thank you so much for this platform.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter. This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Diniz. And our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter.com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.