How Motherhood Transformed This Attorney's Relationship With Her Stutter

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

 Happy Stuttering Awareness Week. We are thrilled to announce the launch of our crowdfunding campaign for Rock of Hope, the documentary film I'm producing alongside Tessa, a woman who stutters, and Isaac, an award winning journalist who stutters. Can you make a pledge to the campaign today? The URL to make your pledge is tinyurl.com/rockofhopefilm.

If you are tuning in early in the morning on Friday, May 17th, um, around the same time that this episode is releasing, there is still time to join proud stutters virtual event. Featuring Isaac, happening on Zoom at 9am PST. If you missed it, don't worry, check out our Proud Stutters YouTube channel. The recording will be posted there.

Rock of Hope follows Jay Jordan, a formerly incarcerated man. With a stutter and his resiliency through bullying, incarceration, and homelessness. Will you help us complete the project by supporting our campaign today? That URL again is tinyurl.com/rockofhopefilm.

We have less than 30 days to raise 21, 500 and we need to reach 80 percent of the goal by the end of the campaign. Or we get nothing. If you want to get involved, you can even claim a cool reward. My personal preference is the 25 incentive, which gives you special access to behind the scenes contact on a private, backer only Tumblr page.

Plus, um, with that 25, you will receive a customized digital sticker that you can share to make all your friends jealous. There's a bunch of other cool rewards to claim. Um, also if you'd like to support but can't afford to monetarily that's totally okay There's a ton you can do instead, um, which includes following the campaign on seed and spark once we hit 250 followers Regardless of how many people pledge, we'll start unlocking creator discounts for this and future projects.

Um, another way is you can share on social media using our nifty toolkit, which you can find in our show notes. And last but not least, of course, share with your friends, colleagues, and family. The film needs to be made because it has the ability to change people's lives and inspire hope for the estimated 70 million people who stutter worldwide and also for those who are formerly incarcerated.

Please donate today and share our campaign to help us bring this story and hope for a future where all with the stutter can thrive to the world. We look forward to having you on our filmmaking journey. Without further ado, here is my interview with Casey Combs.

I'm Maya Chuka, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. I'm your host, Maya Chika Today. We have a badass woman, Casey Combs, um, she stutters and she's also an attorney. Casey, thank you so much for being here.

Casey Combs:

And thank you for having me here. I'm so excited to speak with you today. I want to talk about your stutter.

Maya:

Um, can you Describe your stutter and how it might be different from, like, maybe the more mainstream version society thinks stuttering is?

Casey:

Sure. So, I mean, I think it's important to first talk about, um, statistics here, right? So I'm speaking on the vast majority of centers are men. Um, so I'm a female setter. Um, and I started centering at the age of 10, I believe. Uh, I think I was at, I think I was actually, I was like, I think I was actually, um, like an accident.

Um, and that's actually what was the cause. Of my center from the onset. Um, so it's kind of just like a trauma related center and I feel like it comes in waves Um, so sometimes it'll be just a very intense and some periods of time Like I feel like I don't really have one anymore and then it goes back.

Um, so it's kind of just like ever Kind of like changing One thing in me, you know,

Maya:

yeah, I can relate as well. I always describe my stutter as like waves Yeah, it comes and goes Yeah, and I think that's what makes it hard to describe to people like it's I I feel like stuttering is so unlike Other disabilities and that it's not this constant thing.

It's just very hard to predict sometimes. And so that in predictability, I'm sure it can really play a role in like, like your work, for example, which I definitely want to get to later because you're the first attorney you've ever had on the show. So, um, I'm just so excited to. To talk with you about that. But first, um, you know, we're like, like you said, like, there's more men who stutter statistically than than than the woman. And I feel like we kind of have a unique struggle compared to men. And so I'm wondering if you can talk more about that. That struggle of being a woman who stutters in your both your personal life and your professional life

Casey:

I mean that I feel like that's a loaded question, right? I mean um I I've never I mean, honestly, I've never really actually met Um, it's like a female that stuttered besides you. Um, and, um, you actually were the first, I was like, female that, um, I was like, I've never met that actually stuttered. I actually grew up with a kid, um, I think it was in like, middle school who stuttered. Um, and that was really it. So, it definitely was kind of like an isolating, like, feeling, right? And, um, it's like a silent disability. So, it's not like one that. And someone can see, and someone can kind of pick up and start looking at you. So it, so it's very much kind of an internal struggle, um, and one that is, I think, deeply, like, personal because it's something that, like, we have to constantly, It's like be thinking about even if others, you know, I was like, don't actually pick up on it.

It's something that, uh, I was like, we always know is there, right? Like we're always constantly thinking about it. Um, so it's like ever present struggle within us.

Maya:

And is there like a pet peeve that you have around your stutter? Like mine, for example, is, um, when I, When I talk to someone for the first time and I need to tell them I have a stutter They're always confused like oh i'm not hearing it or like I don't kind of know what you're talking about I don't care like I still have one right like

Casey:

Yeah, something that is definitely like so annoying. Um, and also, um, sometimes I finish my sentence That will that just makes me like So mad because it's almost as if like they are thinking that I was like, I need help And so I was like, let's I actually you know, you know, you know I was like asking for help and you know, I was like don't like speak for me. Thank you very much

Maya:

we we met very recently and Um, and you know, you haven't met a lot of people who stutter and so I'm wondering like how that, how has that impacted how you view your stutter and kind of what has that journey been like from like when you first started stuttering to now? Is there a reason?

Casey:

You know, why I actually haven't met, you know, I think many people that center is because I have always been. I was like deeply kind of ashamed by my setter and it was kind of something that it's like I, that it's like I have, uh, uh, uh, I was like wished away on my whole life. And, um, I didn't, like, I didn't actually want the face to kind of head on, so I didn't really kind of want to associate myself with it.

Um, I feel like as I'm now, 35 years old. Um, it's never going away. Um, it's time to embrace it. Um, it's time to finally sort of, sort of just accept it. Um, or at least like try to, right. Um, I think that's why I'm doing this in part because I want to kind of raise awareness that, um, it's okay to not actually want to accept it.

Right. Um, it's okay. Um, to have all these sort of like big feelings. Um, that And, you know, uh, anger and shame, all those feelings we have, right. Um, but at some point, uh, the tie really has to turn on because, you know, you know, at the end of the day, uh, there is no sort of a magic pill, um, for us. Right. And I feel like it really wasn't, um, thinking until I had my daughter that I have kind of just like seeing this unrealized this for myself.

But at first I had a fear. of kind of just like her not being able to understand me. I feel like, and I like, that is like so absurd. Like, you know, it's not like she actually cares. Right. Um, and I'm just thinking to myself, like, if she had said, or like, I would never want, you know, her to feel this way. Right. Um, carry the shame, um, and to carry this, anger and frustration. So it has definitely, um, like shifted the way that I am seeing myself. Um, and I would just say like, if you have a best friend, if you have a sister, if you're a brother, and if they have a son or, you actually wouldn't want them to feel this way either.

Um, so that's kind of like where I am right now. Um, it's just like, um, working through this feeling.

Maya:

And how old is your daughter?

Casey:

She is like 21 months. Yeah, she's a little baby. Yeah, she has the curliest hair and she's the best.

Maya:

Aww, so she hasn't started talking yet.

Casey:

Oh, she talks a lot. She's just like constantly just like talking. Oh yeah, so yeah. And I, and you know, I feel like I have to now, I'm like speak more because, you know, I feel like I'm just like, I feel like I'm always sort of, of the chatting with her. Um, and I feel like, and I just feel like before I had her, like I wasn't, I kind of like, I feel like I sometimes I just hid behind my silence sometimes.Um, and now it's like, I don't get to do that. Right.

Maya:

And had, have you noticed a shift in. Your speech from like, you know, since before you were pregnant to while you're pregnant to now like like To like postpartum, like, yeah. Did you ever see like a change in your speech during those like three phases?

Casey:

I mean, definitely. Right. I mean, I was like during pregnancy, um, and, and I was like, postpartum I had, um, it's like, just like, um, it's like severe anxiety. So I bet it was just like, So bad. Um, a little bit of an issue, but, um, I would say now it's gotten better because I think I have a better kind of like attitude, um, um, in terms of the way that I, I, as I see myself. I am trying to be a lot more of a patient with myself. I feel like I've actually learned to give my body and mind a lot more as a grace. Um, so I think that just like has, I'm like shifted on my center too.

Maya:

Yeah. Wow. That's, I'm so glad to hear that. You kind of, Yeah, I've reached that point is, uh, there's just, I feel like there's just so much tension that's built up around our stutter and much tension. Yeah. Once we start letting that go like a little bit by little bit, um, With like these small changes like attitude and just like yeah, yeah, just finding more peace I guess exactly your stutter. So It's not the easiest thing to find

Casey:

It's not the easiest thing to find. No, and I mean honestly, I feel like it's taking me The better part of a 20 years. Um So I feel like it is sort, you know, it's like, it definitely is sort of like a slow process. Um, it doesn't happen overnight

Maya:

before we started recording, you talked about resiliency and how that kind of intersects with stuttering. Can you talk more about that?

Casey:

Um, I think a stutterer, it's so kind of easy, you know, like let's take it down on ourselves. Right. It's so easy. There's that kind of have this. Sort of just like self doubt and if you think about it, like we really are the most Sort of just the resilient people there are um Like we always have to keep trying and we always have to keep fighting to speak You know, um, especially as an attorney like I go, you know I would go to interviews and I was actually first looking for a job and I would be All laughed at I had people all laughing at me Um And I'm not going to lie, like, you know, sometimes I was kind of on the fence of, you know, like, I don't know if I could do this anymore, you know, like, you know, and, you know, I don't want to say. It's just, you know, you know, sort of just like suicidal, but you know, I feel like it's like you always have to keep on the fighting. Um, and I am a big, you know, I was going to Palatine. Um, um, I'm actually, I was on a run the other day. Um, and the instructor said something to the effect of, um, like you are only stuck if you stop. And I was like, wow, that is such a good truth statement. We're only stuck if we actually stop. And honestly, it's like, and you know, you know, you know, as someone who stutters, it's like, it's like, it's just like, it's just like, we never actually get to stop. Um, so it's not like we're ever actually going to be stuck. It's just that like sometimes, you know, it's like we feel stuck.

Maya:

Um, so yeah. Yeah. There's so much that comes up for me. Cause yeah, there have been moments in my life where I felt like. Especially when I was younger, I was like, is this going to be like my whole life? Am I just going to be struggling to talk my whole life? Like what life is that? Like what, how am I going to like live through this for the rest of my life? Like I would just. Get so overwhelmed by that idea that this is just gonna Control like every part of my life and where is that gonna lead me and I just go down these dark Exactly, like rabbit holes of like just thinking about the worst and you mentioned That you're about your experience like interviewing as an Attorney so that's kind of where I want to move to is, um, like how did you, like, where did the idea of you becoming an attorney start? And how did you get into that? Um, like how was law school for you? And like, what brought you to where you are now?

Casey:

So I decided to become an attorney, I think because I loved history and I loved writing. Um, but I knew that I mean, as an attorney that under the expectation is that you have to just like, I'll be a public speaker.

And so I was like, you know what, I'm actually going to challenge myself and so I should do it anyway. Um, I kind of wanted to. Sort of just like challenge myself. Um, you know, I was like facing this sort of self doubt. Um, so I did. Um, um, and then, um, in law school, you know, I was like, that was actually pretty tough because they under practice, um, the Socratic method.

And that is where I'm the teacher will kind of like, well, you. on you at random. Um, but it's interesting because I feel like during law school, um, it's like my setter was kind of super light. And it's almost like, because like I was kind of expecting it to, it's like to be called on so much. Um, I don't know. It's almost like I had this sort of confidence. Just being called on. I don't know. It's like so interesting.

Maya:

So what was life after law school like? I can imagine you probably were applying to jobs.

Casey:

Um, so after law school, we had to interview for jobs. Um, and that was incredibly challenging for some of the setters because There is an immense amount of pressure to speak up perfectly. Um, when you have more pressure by your speech, I tend to get worse. So during the interview process, even though I was extremely underqualified, I would constantly be turned down for jobs. I, I was laughed at, um, on a phone interview, which was just absolutely. You know, it's like humiliating. Um, so I felt like I had to sell for something that I didn't necessarily want to do, um, because I was counseling just on the turned away. So I settled for a few years. Um,

I buckled down. I learned a lot. Um, and then when it came time to move roles, I was very upset. On the forthcoming, um, uh, front about my speech, um, and my, my bosses were actually very receptive to it. Um, so I have been in this role for now for about 5 years. I am an associate attorney at 1. Of the world's largest, um, as a corporate immigration firms.

Um, and of course, that's one more that I have some trouble saying, um, uh, but in this role, uh, I counsel, um, executives, um, and other clients, um, from the fortune 50 companies that are from, uh, foreign countries that are coming over to the U S, uh, for work. And what that means is that I'm, I'm of the, I'm of the constantly just I of the client facing, um, I'm always talking to clients. I'm always talking, you know, on the HR and mobility. I'm not always able to hide behind on my screen, um, and hide behind my keyboard. Um, which is definitely sometimes out of my comfort zone. Um. But I've always been one to kind of like a challenge and to want to push myself because it makes me uncomfortable and it makes me, you know, grow. I have, some days are horrible. Um, some days are great. I love my job. Um, and you know, I think it's important to stress that you don't, someone doesn't have to hide behind their keyboard if they have this better. It's okay. Um, it's about network force, um, speaking and engaging, um, doing, um, exactly what you want to do.

Maya:

And can you talk more about how, like, your stutter impacts your work?

Casey:

It's almost like I feel like I have to kind of overcompensate for that. Um, and I have to be the best and the smartest, and I always have to do the best job because I feel like I have this, I was like faulted me, right? Like I have something else that is like, so wrong with me, you know, I feel like I'm just like working later or, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, I feel like, I feel like kind of just like working harder or longer.

So I settled on a job. And I worked there for a few years and I just like hated it. Um, and then I actually interviewed for a job I have now, and I was actually was, you know, I was like, for the first time that I said her, um, and they actually didn't seem to care, um, which, It's still kind of insane to me.

Um, and it's just, you know, awesome. I mean, I am a corporate immigration attorney. Um, and that is, I was like one word that I have a trouble saying, of course. Um, but yeah. Um, so I, yeah. Um, it's like, so I actually work with clients all day. Um, and I actually help them get their visas. Um, so I work with the, it's like, C suite, um, of these sort of, you know, I'd be sort of a big corporation and I'm still like, I'm someone who said Arcelia and, you know, it's like, that is where it's like, we still have this.

I was like self doubt, but no, it's like, you know, like, you know, it's important, you know, it says you keep thinking that, you know, I am smart, you know, and, you know, you know, it's like, um, there's a qualified. And, um, so yeah, that is pretty much it. And do you have any final thoughts you'd want to share before we wrap up our interview? I just want to stress that. We are so much more than our stutter. Oftentimes it can be very hard to see past it because it's an ever present thing in our life and something that it's like I have equated to almost like a phobia. Like I have a phobia of speaking and a phobia of stuttering. The anxiety that comes with in my body. is phobic. Um, and, and as I work through this, and as I work through this phobia, or these self doubts, it's important to remember that we are so much more than this. Um, you can be anything that you want to be, even though society sometimes, just like they live at you, you can push through it. You can. You can really do anything that you want. Um, it is really important for me to set an example for my daughter going forward. Um, that it's like life is not easy. Um, and mom faces challenges, but she is going to rise above them. And, and that always, she will make it. You know, I was like a daughter proud, but she's going to make herself proud. Um, so I just want to end on that. Um, and, and on that thought that, you know, it's okay to feel sometimes like bad and down about it, but it's not okay to always feel that way. And it's important to think of yourself as so much more than your stutter.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter. This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Diniz. And our artwork By Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter.com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.