Preparing For A Presentation As A Person Who Stutters

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

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I'm Maya Chupkov and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time. Welcome back to Proud Stutter. Today we have. Um, sorry, okay, this happens all the time, I'm just like, hey, how do you pronounce your name again? Okay, got it. You want me to say it again? You table um.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. Today we have Hilary You table um with us. Hilary is a student and teacher of physics and someone who enjoys thinking about epistemology. Hilary, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Yeah. So, um, can you tell us a little bit about, um, I know you're, I think you're based in Chicago, Illinois. Is that where you've always lived?

Hilary Utaegbulam

Yeah, I am. I hail from Houston, Houston, Texas. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm Nigerian. I was born in Nigeria, born and partly raised in Nigeria. Um, but mostly raised in Houston, Texas. I moved to Illinois, um, recently last August to, um, continue my Ph. D. here. Um, so growing up with a stutter was, well, I think, um, a word that I could use to describe it was just not easy. Um, I, I, I remember in high school, like, talking or having, we had the, uh, read aloud where, you know, we'd be reading, and then one person would go, and then the next person would go, and then the next person. Whenever it came to me, I couldn't read the, the, the, you know, the thing that we had to read, whatever it is we were reading. Um, and I, I, I kind of just remember people in the audience not knowing, or not audience, but in the class not knowing why, what, what was happening or, you know, why, why is it that, you know, whenever it came to Hillary, Hillary couldn't read. And it wasn't until I think junior ish year that I sort of came out and told people that I, I'm a person who, um, who, who, who stutters. And that's, you know, that, that was difficult. Wow, that's young to come out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I don't remember why I did it. It's that was so long ago. I don't remember why what like pushed me to start becoming open, but I was open with the fact that I started for a while and I think it was junior year and then it kind of died down and then came back up.

In graduate school, where I'm now, like, just completely open with the fact that I stutter.

Maya:

Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Is there, like, a memory that comes to mind that you can kind of share with us of what it was like growing up? Like, something that kind of stuck with you when you were younger?

Hilary:

I remember there was, my first time attending a real conference, a real, um, a real physics conference, I had someone And this is someone that I, um, I wouldn't say I'm friends with now, but someone that I still talk to, um, and he asked me, you know, Hey, how are you? What's, what's your name? This is a new person. And I just stared at him. I couldn't, I wanted to say my name, Hillary, but I couldn't. And I could tell that he, he sort of took it as like a disrespectful thing that I wasn't responding. But I remember in the moment that I was trying to, lots of things were going through my head, that one, I couldn't say my name, even though I'm trying to say my name, and two, I could go down the route of explaining why I couldn't respond to him, but that would be just awkward, and so I was like weighing my options, and different options, and instead of choosing one, I just didn't say anything.

I remember through that interaction, I didn't say a thing, and he ended up walking away. And I sat there for a moment thinking, damn, I should have just like said, chose one of the options that's like something, but yeah, it wasn't even like a complete speech speech block, I could have said, I can't say my name right now because I'm, you know, I'm a person who, who, who stutters and whatnot. But I guess I was, I was afraid of the embarrassment of having to say that. And so it, it's, that's, that's one of the memories that I just won't, won't ever, um, forget. Cause it was my first real conference and that was like the first interaction I had with someone. And so, yeah.

Maya:

Oh man, yeah, that is such a relatable. moment because I've been to a lot of conferences and sometimes that first introduction I, I deal with the same thing. So like, did that set the tone for the rest of the conference? Or were you able to kind of move past that?

Hilary:

I was able to move past it. This was in, in, um, In undergrad, and this is like around the time that I, you know, I, I was still open about the fact that I stutter, but not as open as I was previously in high school and not definitely not as open as I am now, and these are all new people, you know, at the conference that I didn't know any of these people.

So, it didn't, it didn't really set the tone because I ended up just. I went there, I was an undergrad and so I went there to view other people's research and see what people are doing that I might be interested in. And, you know, luckily they did a lot of the talking since they, they were presenting to me.

So, it was a good conference, rest of the conference in that sense. But it, for other conferences, it did set the tone in the sense that I, you know, now when I, I'm meeting someone for the first time and I can't say my name, they ask me what's my name and I can't, I just choose one. If I can't say, if I can't say my name, I will say it. And if I can't, I will just choose to explain why I can't say it. And so in that sense, it was a good thing that sort of bad experience turned into a very good, good, um, good thing down the road because now I know, you know, don't just stand there. You look, you know, it's not a good look. Don't just stand there and not say anything. Respond somehow. And so, yeah,

Maya:

I remember something I used to do when I was younger, because I would it. Like, and when I was younger, I used to like stutter a lot more consistently. And one of the things I would do is when, because there was a phase where me and my dad used to go to Starbucks like all the time, it was like, it was just one of our kind of like weekly rituals where, you know, I go with him, I'd get a hot chocolate or something. And the barista would say, Oh, what's your name? And I would just make up names, like, every time. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah.

Hilary:

I'm smiling because I do that too. I go by Steve sometimes. I can, I can always say the word Steve, and so the name Steve, and so part of my, my last apartment, when I first met my landlord, I told her my name was Steve, and I had forgotten, so I met her, and then a couple weeks went by, and then I came back to sign the forms and stuff for the apartment.

And she called me Steve, and I was like, Steve, oh yeah, I said, I said Steve, and she had written Steve on the paperwork, like she typed up Steve, and so I had to explain to her that I, I went by Steve because I stutter, and that my real name is Hillary, and whatnot, and so she went, she had to like change it on the paperwork, but I, I think that's funny because I, I do the same thing, I, my go to is Steve, it always works, I can never, I, I never stutter on the word Steve, I'm not sure but it's the one that I always go to.

And so I think that's really cool that, you know, you do that too.

Maya:

Oh my gosh, that is hilarious. Um, yeah. And then another thing that it made me think of was, um, so I was in Mexico for my friend's wedding and it was an all inclusive resort, like the whole wedding guests, we all stayed at, um, an all inclusive resort and, you know, I stutter so much in other languages.

And so like, I couldn't say the word gracias, like, of course I can say it now, but I just couldn't say thank you in Spanish to like anyone. And so I felt so bad because like, they would be giving me like food or drinks or. Helping me out with something. And I couldn't say thank you. And so I ended up saying thank you in English, cause it was way easier, even though I wanted to say it in Spanish.

So that's kind of just another example. That is super recent.

Hilary:

That's right. I, that happens. I speak ibo. I, my, my, um, my native tongue is ibo and, um, I, I like to say I'm fluent in it. My older brother would like to say that I'm, I'm actually not, I don't meet the criteria for being fluent. I mean, I think he's actually right, but That's okay. I like to say I'm fluent. Um, and I could, I can speak like, I can hold a conversation with people in, in Ebo. But it is a lot harder for me because of, um, because of my stutter. I stutter a lot more in other languages, in Spanish, in, in Igbo, when I, I took four years, four years of Spanish, and, you know, I, I regret this now, but I, I wasn't really engaged with it because I just stuttered so much trying to speak Spanish that I just, I couldn't, this was in high school, and I couldn't get myself to focus on the class because I stuttered so much. And it was just really embarrassing because a lot of the Spanish, you know, when you're learning Spanish, a lot of it in class is to speak up, try and show the teacher that you know Spanish, and it's not that I, not that I didn't want to try, but I couldn't speak. I can't, I couldn't say the words. And she didn't really understand that.

And I think that's mostly my fault. I was bad at explaining that I, I had a stutter. Um, but yeah, I, I agree in other languages, in Igbo and Spanish and other languages that I've tried, um, I stutter a lot more and I suspect that's just cause I've had a lot more practice with English stuttering and not stuttering. And so, um, yeah, I, I, I feel that.

Maya:

So I want to get into is like the mental and physical hurdles that come with. stuttering. So can you talk about that and, um, how that impacts like your day to day life?

Hilary:

Yeah, it is. I try to let it, or I try to not have it impact me as much now, but, um, you know, it still does.

It's not always my, it's not always my, it's hard. It's bad to say this, but it's not always my choice as to whether or not, you know, it, it impacts me the way, um, the way I want it to not impact me. But it, you know, not be, for example, not being able to say my my name it's It, it, it, it weighs on me. You know, it's, it, it's, uh, it's hard to sort of uplift myself sometimes because be, be because of that.

Um, and it's, it's when I set, um, the physical hurdles, it, like my jaw will hurt sometimes when it's just a bad day of stuttering and I. I can't, you know, I've maybe I've had I've had to talk a lot using words that I couldn't say at the time. And, you know, it is a physical pain in my jaw. And it's not a good pain.

And so my sometimes I'm asked, you know, Hey, Hillary, why do you you know, why do you not come into into the lab sometimes? Why? Why? There are some weeks where most of the week I work from home because a lot of the work I do is code. And, you know, my rationale is, you know, You know, when I'm in my sort of at home, right, I can talk to people via, you know, via via social media and whatnot. And I can just. Work and code and not have to really worry about, you know, if this person talks to me, can I say, can I use the words that I want to use? Or, you know, can I hold a conversation with this person? And so it, it's, it's sort of like that. It affects whether or not some days, whether or not I choose to go in, right? Go into work or some days I choose to stay at home here and work. Um, And so that's, that's, that's one of the ways that it, it affects. And it, it doesn't, it leads to some, you know, not so we'll say not so great. Not so, not so great feelings about, you know, myself, oneself, it's hard to, to sort of, um, it's sometimes hard to, to, for me to uplift myself alone, you know, luckily there are other people who know I stutter. And, you know, sometimes I could chat with them about it and whatnot and by chat I mean. Chat is an interesting term because we have to talk. But yeah, we, we, sometimes it is, it is, it is hard. Um, I started teaching during COVID, and a lot of the teaching was via Zoom. And so something that I learned is that if I write down a word that I can't say, most of the time I'm able to say it. I don't know why that is but if I start writing it on some type of, I taught with my tablet when I taught via Zoom. Um, via zoom during COVID and so luckily that that worked in my favor because you know I was via zoom and I had my tablet and so I connect my tablet to the zoom and I teach, teach, um, teach my students using my tablet, you know, writing on his equation, you should know here's how to use it. Let's do an example. And I would always tell my students that I'm, I'm a person who stutters and that you will notice me. Um, notice me stutter throughout the course and whatnot, um, and that, you know, it's just, just to, just to make them aware that I'm, I'm a person who stutters and that this will happen. Um, but yeah, one of the things that, um, I noticed was that if I start writing things, words that I can't say, most of the time I'm able to say them. Sometimes I still can't, but most of the time I'm able to say them and that, that, that, um, worked in my favor a lot during, during teaching during COVID. And.

Maya:

You mentioned that you spend a lot of your time coding. How much of an impact did stuttering have on like Your academic path it

Hilary:

I don't want to admit it, but it's sort of kind of didn't I actually enjoy really enjoy coding and like working sort of by by myself, but, um, it's sort of kind of did. I haven't really I am in the in the realm of realm of of of physics, you sort of can be a hardware oriented person or a software oriented person. And, um, You know, not being able to speak and some, some other, um, I don't want to use the word issues, but some, some other, I'll use the word issues, some other issues I have sort of, um, caused me to stay away from hardware. Because when you're doing hardware, you know, inherently you have to work with other people and, um, The stutter and I'm pre diabetic, and there is, um, one of the, one of the side effects of being pre diabetic is, um, hyperhidrosis.

And so I'm, I'm often known to work with gloves on, I have a pair here that I keep on my self, or by my side, because it just, when my, hyperhidrosis is when my palms start to sweat, because I'm pre diabetic. And so, it's just hard to grab things. And so I put on gloves to increase friction between my, my hands and some other stuff.

And so the combination of those two, stuttering and also, you know, not being able to really work, work well, you know, I'm overheating when other people are not. It makes me, you know, go towards the, the, or err on the side of being, you know, at home because, or working by myself, because it just makes things so much easier. Right. There is no jaw pain. I don't have to worry about can I explain to this other person what I'm doing or can I ask, you know, ask for help. Sometimes I can't ask for help. You know, it's just a lot easier to just be able to be here and Google if I need help, Google or, you know, anything else. So I don't want to admit it, but yes, it did. It did sort of steer me towards it. It's, um, a life of coding, but it turns out I do like it. I do like coding. So it's not, you know, it's not all that bad.

Maya:

Um, yeah, well, it sounds like you like it. And, um, and so you mentioned you're pre diabetic. Can you explain that a little bit?

Hilary:

It means, my understanding is that it means I'm very, um, I'm very susceptible to becoming diabetic. And that, um, what I need to do is to just manage my intake of, or my sugar intake. Um, and so that's what, that's what my understanding of it is. Um, and I, I think I've, I've so far, as far as I know, been doing a good job of doing that. Um, but there are side effects and the one that mainly, um, affects my life is hyperhidrosis. Um, and then the fact that hyperhidrosis along with being a person who stutters together really affects my life. And so I have to make choices with those in mind, with both of them in mind. And so Even though I shouldn't.

Maya:

And so does hyperhidrosis So that has a direct connection to being pre diabetic?

Hilary:

Uh, yes, well I think it's the other way around. I think pre diabetic has the connection to hyperhidrosis. Oh, okay. So that, that's the, the side effects is, is hyperhidrosis.

Maya:

I see, okay. The cause of being pre diabetic. Okay, okay, interesting. Um, wow, yeah, that's That is a lot to deal with. Um,

Hilary:

But again, it's not, it's not all that bad. I found a way to, yeah, I think I'm managing it. Okay. Yeah. I found a way to sort of manage it well enough. And luckily there are fields that don't require that I be, you know, that I, I touch things and, you know, fields like the one I'm in where I can, just code and then explain to people what my code does and meet with, you know, people via Zoom and whatnot. This isn't to say, I don't want to make it sound like I don't like going out. I enjoy, sometimes I enjoy going out with friends and enjoy going to meet up with people. Yeah. Um, but you know, I guess I'm saying this to sort of emphasize that it, it's, it's a thing in, a thing I have to keep in mind, but you know, I have to make. choices based on how the day is going with respect to both of those stuttering and hyperhidrosis.

Maya:

Thanks for educating me on that. Cause yeah, I, I never, um, I don't think I've ever heard about hyperhidrosis and especially its connection to stuttering. It's just, yeah, very, very fascinating.

Hilary:

Stuttering and hyperhidrosis have both life in, um, not so great ways. And, um, one of the things that I did recently is to talk to a therapist about these things. And in my In my community, talking to, growing up, talking to therapists is not a thing that was ever talked about or really, you know, pushed towards, um, the African American, African American community, um, especially black males. Um, And I, you know, I just want to say, anyone who's listening to this, you know, whether you're a black male or not, if you stutter or, and if you can talk to a therapist, I think people should, should try it. It's helped me a lot. You know, I'm, as much as I talk about both of those being bad, I, you know, part of the reason why I'm, part of the reason why it's not, it's not so bad and that I've learned ways to, to manage these is that I, I talk to therapists about the, about the, about them and about the, um, yeah. The sort of not so not so good thoughts that they that that that they lead to and so, you know, I just wanted to put that out there because it's it's helped me a lot and I suspect they could help people who have never even considered talking to talking to someone about this, you know, someone who could help. And so, yeah,

Maya:

thank you. That's great advice. Um, I had the pleasure of watching you do an amazing presentation on. The thing you're studying for your PhD and I thought you did such a great job of incorporating and disclosing about your stutter in such a natural way in the presentation. And I actually, I don't know if I was allowed to do this, but I did take a small video of it. Um, that, um, I'll, I'll probably end up, maybe I'll put it in an episode depending on how it sounds, but I think it'd just be fun to like have people at least hear a little bit from your presentation. Um, but yeah, can you first introduce, cause you did such a good job of like, of, um, of making the topic accessible to like people that might not be, you know, familiar with, um, epistemology. Um, so first, can you just, talk about what that is and what you're studying and then, um, and then like what, how did you prepare to do that presentation?

Hilary:

It took me a long time. I'm 26 now and it's, it's taken me a long time to get to a point where I feel like I can give a presentation like that. And only recently, only like two, Two, two-ish months ago. Um, but so prep in prepping for that, um, it, it was really hard. I didn't, I mean, , I, I didn't expect it. I guess I, I didn't expect the preparation itself to be as hard as it was. I thought, you know, maybe if I put in the work that, you know, the sort of, it, it may be a, um. A climb, but not such so, so not so steep of a climb. My, I met with my advisor, um, a couple times before this night I presented the, the presentation itself before to him before I gave the actual presentation, and I guess I'm trying to credit this to him in that he. He sort of told me, hey, you know, you could, one of the ways you could try to help yourself and your audience is to try to keep it as simple as possible, because I was going into before the version that you saw was the sort of the polished try, try and keep things as simple as possible, especially if I'm trying to, you know, Have it accessible to, um, to everyone.

And so, you know, I thought, huh, okay, let me try that. And so I, I made the changes that he, um, that he suggested. And it happened to turn out really, really good. And I'm happy, that's sort of a tactic that I, I don't know why I had not, I hadn't, I had not sort of, um, I had not, I had not considered that before.

But I sort of just made things, Simple in a way where everyone could, could, um, could understand what, what, what, what I'm talking about. Um, and I, I credit that a lot to my, to, to my, to my advisor. But, um, before that, before I had, I remember there was a, a, a point at which I was, I was going to email him and NSBP, the National Society of Black, of Black Physicists, to tell them that I, I didn't think I could do it.

Because I had been, I had been, um, you know, practicing the presentation to myself over and over and over again, and I just kept really, really, really stuttering throughout the whole thing. And I couldn't, you know, it clearly, to me, it was clear that anyone that I was talking to wouldn't understand what I'm saying, or, you know, what I'm trying to get, you know, what I'm trying to, um, When I'm trying to, to, to communicate to them, um, and so I was going to say I was, you know, I have a half written email. I think it's still in my drafts where I was, you know, going to apologize and say that I don't think I can do this. But then I met with my advisor, I think the, the day after, um, and we went through it, we took about an hour or two to go through it. And, Um, you know, I made the changes that he suggested and then I practiced it again and it slowly became easier and easier and easier.

And so, yeah, that that was, I mean, it was, it was an interesting, interesting, um, it was an interesting, uh, preparation sort of, um, era because I, I learned a lot. I learned a lot as to how to, you know, if I give a presentation like this again, how to, how to aim to keep it simple for the audience, but also for myself such that I don't, you know, in places that I will stutter, it's not too much stuttering.

Maya:

How did you feel during the presentation and Um, and what happened afterwards

Hilary:

during the during the presentation, I felt nervous throughout the whole thing. It was, I think, roughly half an hour long it. I mean, there wasn't a single time where I wasn't nervous. I was, I was, I don't know if people could tell, but I was, I haven't watched the whole thing. It's been posted on YouTube, but I haven't watched the whole thing because I, I, I, Sorta don't want to. But it's, I, I, I remember feeling nervous throughout the whole thing. I turned my camera off because I didn't want to come across as nervous. In those type of presentations usually people keep their camera on and then in the YouTube video you can see them as you see what they're presenting.

I turned it off and then started pacing in my room so that I wouldn't, so that I could keep calm and get through the presentation. And it worked, so it's, it's fine. Something that worked. Um, but during it, I could, there was a point, I think about halfway through it hit me that, you know, I was doing an okay job that I had not, I had not to the in as far as I had stuttered.

It was a good thing that I was stuttering sometimes because that's part of the point of the presentation, and I still felt that I was, um. I was still, uh, communicating my work well enough. And so I was part of the preparation was trying to find a balance between the two, because I didn't want to not stutter, but, you know, and plus that wasn't not going to happen. I was going to stutter, but I didn't want to, you know, come off as someone who didn't stutter too much, because I, I do stutter and I wanted to raise, um, awareness for people who stutter. And so about halfway through, I was like, Oh, this is going okay. I think I can take a deep breath and just. You know, continue and finish it off.

Um, but I, I was, I, I, I, I was nervous throughout the, the, um, presentation. Um, and then afterwards I, I remember, uh, hyping myself up. Like I went to my kitchen and I was like, let's go. Because it was the first time that I had done something like that. And I, you know, a few days ago, a few days before that point, I didn't think that I would.

I didn't think that I could. You know, I had written half an email to NSVP and my advisor thinking that I just couldn't do it. That I would stutter too much and people wouldn't understand what I'm trying to say. Um, but then I did it. And so afterwards I was really happy, really happy, actually like hyping myself up, saying, let's go.

Um, and over and over again for the next couple of days, I was writing on a high that, Oh, I did this thing that I, I thought I couldn't do, but. It turns out I can do. And so, you know, it was, it was very uplifting for my, um, emotional state. And I think for everything else.

Maya:

And did you get any feedback about the presentation?

Hilary:

Yeah, a couple people told me that I did a good job. And I think, uh, two people specifically said, or I guess Including you around four people specifically said that they felt I did a good job, making it accessible to everyone that they were able to follow. So these are people I'm not in in the field of not in the, in the field of not in the field of physics, they were able to follow and even people who were in the field of physics, but not necessarily, not necessarily neutrino physics told me that they were able also able, able to follow. So I was, I was really happy to hear that because that's, you know, one of the points I was going for was trying to make it so that anyone who, who watched this in the future would be able to understand what was, what I was, what I was talking about. And so,

Maya:

and how many hours did you spend preparing?

Hilary:

A lot. I don't know that I can even quantify it. It was a lot because making the presentation itself and then all the changes that I made and all the times that I, I sat in my laptop, in front of my laptop and gave the presentation to myself over and over and over and over and over again. And then I went with my advisor and did the same. I met with two of my friends and did the same. Um, I put in a lot of time into that presentation, and I was really happy with the, uh, with the outcome. Um, it's, it's sort of worrying that, you know, this means that if I In the future, if I choose to give more presentations like this, like it looks like I should prepare for like a week of, a week of long hours of, um, you know, uh, practicing the, the, the, the, the presentation. Um, but that's okay. I think as long as I, I know that sort of at the, at the end of that will be a good presentation. I think that's okay. Yeah. I spent, I spent a lot.

Maya:

I mean, I could tell like you, it was very impressive. Yeah. I could tell you put a lot of work into it and I was just blown away, honestly, by like how, yeah, just how, yeah, I was just very impressed with, with it all, like not only how you put it all together in the flow, but also like I said, but before, like how you. Just integrated the stuttering part so naturally, like it felt like it was, it belonged in that presentation because the way you just integrated it in there.

Hilary:

Um, thank you. One of the, one of the other tactics I use was I, I, um, so I invited some people. I'm a part of, um, the National Stuttering Association, uh, the upstate New York branch, um, that I, I'm still a part of that branch, even though I'm here. Um, and I invited, um, some of the people from that branch to the, to the talk, because I, you know, I felt that if I had people, it's always easier to talk to other people who can, who, who, who stutter, like it is so much, there's, right now I don't feel the sort of the weight of, oh no, I'm, I'm stuttering, or oh no, I can't say this word, like I'm talking to someone who understands the struggle, and so it is just so much easier, To talk and so I invited them for that reason. I'm like, you know, if I know if I see their names pop up on the zoom call, I know that they're there and I know that they get it and that it's not, it's, you know, it shouldn't, it should lessen the, um, the, the, the burden. I, I, I, I, I feel and so, and it works. It works completely. So I just, I need to like, try and make sure at least one other person who stutters like at all my presentations,

Maya:

that's a really good tip. I'm going to start doing that too.

Hilary:

Just invite one of them will show up. Just say, Hey, I just need you in the audience. Just kind of be there and listen.

Maya:

Yeah. Um, and thank you for inviting me. Cause it was, it was so, it was such a great experience for me to witness. Like. A person who stutters just doing something so cool and something like I learned so much something a topic I never would have liked learned. Otherwise, so What would your advice be to people who? Are about to give a presentation or are working on one? Like what what would you say?

Hilary:

I think it's just hard. It will be, you know, it's not an easy thing. The earlier you can sort of get through that, get through that, that hurdle, the, the better. Because I know there are, at least for me, there are a lot of opportunities that I, I, um, I either chose not to, not to, um, not to, you know, Or sort of didn't really, um, consider, consider, um, consider well enough because I was afraid of stuttering and, you know, I wish I had sort of got to this milestone milestone sooner.

So I think what I would say is to do your best, and it's okay to tell the audience that, that, um, that you, that, that you're a person, a person who, who, who stutters, not saying it before is sort of may work against you because, you know, it, In some parts of the presentation, unfortunately, we will just stutter.

And so, um, I would say that the tactic I use is to, you know, let my audience know that I am, I am a person who, who, who, who stutters and that, you know, it will become apparent. And, um, if, if you can do it, if you feel that you, you really can get through it, I think you should try, because in the end it will, it'll sort of build your confidence to go, go down the paths that you may not have before.

And so, because I have another presentation coming up that I need to start preparing for, but I would not have even considered that presentation had I not. Had it not become apparent to me that I can actually do this, it's not, you know, it's not an impossible task. And so I just, I wish that people older and younger than me sort of, um, go after it and do the presentations.

Because one, it's helping them solve, and then themselves, and it's helping like us as well, you know, other people who stutter. Because it slowly becomes a, a thing that people recognize that, oh, there are, Um, what is, is it non normative? Is it, I forget there's a word for it. Non normative speech, I think. Um, Yeah, I think there's a bunch of different ways. I've heard the term I like to use or that I've heard is non standard speech. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It lets, you know, the world know that there is non standard speech in a form of, you know, stuttering, um, having a lips, so on and so forth. And so, yeah, I think I would tell them if you can do it, And invite, invite, I'll, I'll show invite me, really anyone listen to this, invite me, I won't make time to show up and just listen to you.

Maya:

And so, yeah, yeah. And I'll say like, almost every time I've done a presentation or like done something at a conference or any like public speaking in front of an audience, whether it's zoom or in person, almost like, 99 percent of the time, there's at least one person who stutters that is in the audience that is either like, Oh, like That had come up to me after and, and they were like, Oh, I stutter too. Or I would get an email after saying like, Hey, I just heard you. And I just wanted to say like, you know, I stutter too. And I never met anyone else who's stuttered. And, and one guy even said like, he was listening to me. While he was driving and he just started crying. Oh, yeah, it's powerful. Yeah, yeah, it's a powerful it is.

Hilary:

It is powerful to see, you know, other people who understand understand the struggle. And it's good that there's we have a community and it's slowly becoming, you know, we're slowly still still building it. And that is really I'm happy to be a part of that. And I hope to do more to help people. in, in, um, people who, who, who, who stutter in the future.

Maya:

Yeah. And one of the favorite, one of my favorite. Phrases that I've learned, um, that I just love. Like I'm even thinking of getting a tattoo of it maybe is like, like we're part of the stuttering community and we're like 1 percent of the population. And like, um, I forgot exactly what he said, but it was something about, and you, it's like winning the lottery to be part of the stuttering community. Cause it is kind of. A special thing. And it's kind of like. Yeah, like we are lucky in a way, right?

Hilary:

Right. I agree. I agree. Because, you know, I agree because you meet, you know, it's, it's always good to just meet people who, um, have almost the same experiences as you like almost like one to one. And it's good every time I meet with the I still meet with the upstate New York branch of the national, um, stuttering, stuttering, um, Association and every time I meet with them, I'm just reminded, Hey, I am not alone in this world with respect to stuttering. You know, I know this, but like, it's good every month. So to meet with them via zoom and have the reminder. Hey, I am not alone. And I can reach out to these people whenever just like I did with the, um, with the presentation I gave. And so, yes, we are a part of, uh, we are, um, the lucky few and we are, um, you know, we're good. We've had, we have a, um, a community. To, um, to lean back on and we're going to keep building it. Yeah.

Maya:

Well, Hillary, thank you so much for this conversation and being on the show and just being such a great voice for our community. Yeah.

Hilary:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.

Maya:

That's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork By Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter. com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.