Stuttering & Facing Your Biggest Fears

Transcript

[00:00:00] Adrian: I was always ashamed of it because I could never actually, actually speak right. It was really difficult for me to make friends, uh, even harder to, uh, you know, to be romantic with anybody because, uh, even growing up because it's just nobody wanted to go out with somebody or date or somebody who, who was a, uh, a stutter.

The thing that terrified me the most whenever I meet somebody. Um, and I would have to say, introduce them and say my name. I always, always, I would always. The third of the most when I, when I was saying my name on Adrian, I don't know why it was, it gave me anxiety.

[00:00:44] Maya: I'm Maya

Chupkov and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, [00:01:00] a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. I'm your host, Maya Chupkov. Today we are joined by Adrian Ernesto Zepeda. Adrian is a poet and an author of bilingual poetry book, La Lengua Inside Me, published with Flower Song Press. Welcome Adrian to proud stutter. Hi, how are you doing? So Adrian, you are a fellow Angeleno like I for those who of us you may know you may not know but I'm originally from LA Awesome, and so it's always nice to meet a fellow Angeleno who stutters?

So welcome. I'm so excited to [00:02:00] speak with you so let's So I kind of wanted to start at the very beginning, like I often do. Can you talk about where your stuttering journey started?

[00:02:14] Adrian: Um, it actually, uh, I think I've, I've, I've started for all my life. I was actually born in Detroit, Michigan. Um, my family's of Colombian heritage.

And they moved to my dad, my father moved to Michigan. Uh, he's a doctor to do a residency, um, that they had a, we used to have a program where they would go to South America and they would get the best qualified, um, medical students and they would bring them over. And so I was born, I was only, I'm the only person in our family that was born here.

So I grew up in Ann Arbor, um, which is the University of Michigan where it's at. And I [00:03:00] always remember just. Um, being real shy because whenever I try to, I have the hardest time, um, trying to speak.

[00:03:09] Maya: Yeah, and before we, um, before we started recording, you had mentioned your, your stutter had a lot to do with why you started writing, right?

[00:03:17] Adrian: Yeah, I think that that's when I would, I gravitate towards, Writing, um, when I was seven, my father gave me his typewriter. And so I, I really would, because I had a hard time communicating, I would write my own stories. I was a big, a big, I was a big tricky at the time. So I was writing, writing, writing poetry stories.

[00:03:38] Maya: And how did your writing evolve into poetry?

[00:03:42] Adrian: Um, it wasn't until I was, it was in elementary school. I mean, I studied all the time, but I remember I had a teacher, Mr. Babcock, and he was a big fan of poetry and he would have us memorize a poem every [00:04:00] week and we'd have to recite it. And there was one time where I was sick.

And I thought I didn't have to. And so when I went to the school, uh, the next day, I, I basically was in front of the class. I didn't know. And it was so embarrassing, but when I was in undergrad is when I, I took a creative writing class where I started to become really good in poetry, but I still stuttered

and so I, you know, I was, uh, uh, and so for like the next 13 years, I, I moved around the country. Yeah. And you eventually, um, ended up in LA and that was where.

[00:04:42] Maya: You met your wife, right? How did you meet?

[00:04:44] Adrian: I remember when we first met, uh, I would always get, I always started the most on, on the telephone. I don't know if, um, that happens to you, but, um, when I, I remember when we FI first called her up, she was only a girl [00:05:00] that I never, ever got nervous or, or started on the telephone.

So I knew that was, she was, she was especi when she started, started dating. And she always liked the fact she wasn't always put, put off there, but she liked the fact that I actually. It's just, it's the hundred she actually knew that was part of my personality. So it was kind of different for me when we first met, you know, instead of having somebody like when I met somebody and I would stutter and they would laugh at me, but that was a lot different when I first met my wife.

[00:05:27] Maya: That is so cute. And it reminds me of, um, when I met my husband, almost the same experience. So I'm really glad you guys found each other.

[00:05:37] Adrian: And she knew that I was opposed. She, she's always encouraged me to, she got invited to creative writing conferences. And when she was in grad school at Fullerton. So she encouraged me to go and then I met another poet and I had a mentor and I started writing a lot.

If I could find a way to connect with somebody from the opposite sex. Without talking just with my writing, [00:06:00] that was like, that was something I'm like, Oh my gosh, I, I have to do that. If I could find a way to move somebody without with my writing. So that was something that wasn't, um, that really opened the door to me.

And so, um, I took another, because I, I have, I had really low self esteem when it comes to my writing. And. And so I took a class at community college at Pasadena State College and trying to get some confidence. And then I found this, um, this open mic in Burbank, California, and I went. One of the things that they did is they put, they ran this open mic and I, so I went, and even though, uh, and they encouraged me every, I would go like every, every month to read and, and even though [00:07:00] I stuttered, they still encouraged me to, and that really helped a lot.

And I remember it was like, Four or five months in, I went to go read one of my poems, and something really metaphysical happened where I just became one with the words. It was a life changing experience, where after I finished reading the poem, I realized what I was supposed to do with my life, you know.

Finally, after like, and then when I got off the stage, a woman came up to me and hugged me and said that this, that was the best poem she ever heard in her life.

[00:07:33] Maya: Wow. That must've felt incredible.

[00:07:37] Adrian: So then I applied, I went to go, Antioch had a, uh, information session. I went to go, I said, I write poetry for people who don't really are into poetry.

And I, I'm, I'm kind of like the gateway into people in the poetry. And then he looked up and he was very interested. And so he emailed me and I sent them some poems and then I applied and then I got in. [00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Maya: Ah, that's so amazing. Um, and yeah, what was, what was the residency like for you?

[00:08:06] Adrian: During, uh, so basically it's low residency, which means, uh, every three or four months we could go into the campus and be there for two weeks.

So during my first residency, I signed up for what's a Brown back reading where you would go and you would read some of your poems. And I went to this, um, seminar that was run by Gail Brandeis, who's a very famous, well published poet. And so it was really, really relaxing and stuff. And so afterwards, I went up to Gail.

I said, Gail, hi, my name is Adrian Cepeda. I'm, this is my first residency. I'm supposed to give a Brownback reading. I'm really nervous because, uh, I stutter. Do you have any advice? And she gave me the advice to change my life. She said, Adrian, it's okay. Uh, if you stutter and nobody ever told me that for my life, that it's all right.

And I was like, Oh my gosh. So that [00:09:00] kind of like gave me, that was another kind of turning point. moment, but I would still get really, really downed if I ever read and I, I, I stuttered, but, um, as I started writing a lot, I realized that that was part of my voice. I really agree. I realize now that me going up there to reading someone who's a published poet, if some, if somebody like me go up there and read and share my story, well why can't you?

So I kinda wanna be like an, an inspiration to, to people if they, if, if, if they're really shy, if they have like a, a lisp or if they have some kind of speech impediment, if I can do it, you can do it too. If they have an accent and they kind of feel they're, they're worried, they're afraid of what their, their voice, the way it sounds.

I want to be the kind of person that says, you know, he can do it. So I can do it too.

[00:09:55] Maya: Did you ever know anyone else in your life who [00:10:00] stuttered or like, when was the first time you met someone else who also had a stutter?

[00:10:06] Adrian: I don't remember meeting anybody. Actually. Every time I'd see, like I was once I saw like a documentary of people who stuttered and it just freaked me out because I never really knew that about that's the way that I sound like.

At the L. A county fair for in the promoter and, um, they asked me to read and so I read the first weekend and it was outside and they introduced me and I went up to the mic and rise and listen like nothing came out I couldn't speak. And I was just like, oh, and that then happened to me in a long time.

And then, so like, I kind of, I was starting a lot and I got through it and I just felt really bad about myself. Sometimes it just happens, you know, cause you kind of fall back on, on old habits and how you, and, but a lot of people came up to me and they said that, cause I [00:11:00] think a lot harder on myself, even still now that, you know, I realized that I stutter and stuff, but still, um, you know, Yeah, I, I, I'm, that's interesting.

Nobody ever asked me that question before about me as a buddy. I can't remember actually meeting anybody that in person, which is really interesting. I can't, I can't remember, which is really shocking if you think about it, but I'm sure I will, as, as my, my career, my journey, I'll meet more people and I feel like, You're, you're my tribe, Alice on the Beach.

Yeah. I can't wait to, I can't wait to, but it's really interesting that, so I got, I always felt like an outcast within any kind of, Especially with my voice, but, uh, wow, that's interesting. No, yeah, I, I, I totally can feel where you're at because I remember when I was first asked, that's a [00:12:00] question.

[00:12:02] Maya: Um, and yeah, every time I'd meet someone or see something about stuttering, I would freak out too, cause I wouldn't.

I didn't want to face it, you know, like I always kind of shied away from it and being like, Oh, I don't stutter. Like, what are you talking about? You know, like I didn't want anyone to like find me out. Um, and so similarly to you now I feel this sense of pride because there's so many cool people who stutter and We all share this like deep bond because we all like kind of know what it's like to stutter

[00:12:42] Adrian: Yeah, I mean Excuse me.

Pardon me, but even the president is a stutterer. I feel like sometimes when he freezes they say freezes it's because he's He's going to, we've all had that where we're kind of like, where the words don't come out, like when I was at the reading, I just, it looks like you're freeze, but [00:13:00] you can't, the words don't come out and they don't realize that he's a stutter as a stutter.

That's what's happening. We know what, what it, what it's like. And he said, and he started, I feel like that's why he's our presence really is compassionate because every time I meet a stutter or something, they're very compassionate to, because they know how, and that's kind of what I really, I, I, I'm, I'm proud that I, I, I don't agree with everything, everything he's doing, but I'm proud that I voted from it.

We have actually a stutter in the office, and, uh, so I, I can understand that sometimes that when they say, oh, he's, it's, he's a stutter. That's why. And mm-Hmm, And then, and the amazing thing I've read that he actually, he learned poetry to help him with this, this, with this stutter, which is amazing. So, wow, that must feel really good.

So whenever I meet the president, we have a lot to talk about.

[00:13:55] Maya: Yeah. So let's talk more about your poetry. Um, [00:14:00] so you sent me, um, let's see, I have five books here. Um, and I know several of your poems talk about stuttering. Yes. So, is there a particular poem that you wanted to talk about? Like, what was the first poem you've ever written about stuttering?

[00:14:23] Adrian: One of the first poems I think I wrote about stuttering is, it's a poem called Sounds Feel Trapped. And I'm really proud of it because it's a sestina. And a sestina is one of the most difficult poems to write. Because there's a lot of repetition and it's the only Sistina I've ever successfully written it in my life, and I'm proud of it because it's about my stutter and, um, after I wrote it, I'm really enamored with epigraph, which is quotes, and, um, while I was, um, [00:15:00] before it was going to be published, I was listening to a song from Spoon and, um, And I'm like, God, this is how it's like to stutter and that's what the Brit Daniel and the words get stuck feeling caught up in everyone.

And I feel like that is how that kind of like that echoes how every stutter feels. And I like the way that the way that Um, captures what it's like in midst of the stutter when it's in your mouth. Like my tongue trips with wingless bird. Butterfly keeps flapping inside the caverns of my raging throat.

This thunderous air won't stop gasping with my vocalized disease. I am trapped outside. Arms fail. I feel myself stumble. Like an epileptic seizes with a stumble, humbling, humiliation without sounds, my mouth alters again, I feel trapped as my lips like daggers [00:16:00] keep flapping, spitting, teeth rattling, breaths gasping, every single syllable captured in throat, words like quicksand are jarred in my throat, my body jerks of a freak with a stumble, if I can only speak, feel myself gasping, nothing appears, just stuttering sounds like a cartoon machine gun flapping, Even my exclamation points feel trapped.

Stuck behind this podium, why am I trapped? The stammer rages inside my throat. My lips feel like butterflies caught flapping. My bumble voice creeps me with my stumble. Porky Pig made more gracious sounds. Far from cute when I'm air gasping. I can feel the ground Crowd gasping for this invisible fool who feels trapped.

His lips cursing interference of sounds caught inside my stuttering throat. My body jerks. I feel my fists stumble. No words appear as my lips keep flapping. Just mouthy words with some serious flapping, coughing, stale breath. I'm nothing but gasping. My [00:17:00] legs leap for syllables. I stumble. My enemy is this Achilles tongue, I am trapped.

My words keep disappearing deep inside my throat. These staring eyes, the deafening, my stammering sounds. This thunderous air continues gasping. I feel myself stumble. My familiar stutter sounds like a wingless butterfly flapping. These words still trap as I keep stammering inside my raging throat. Wow.

[00:17:28] Maya: That was absolutely beautiful. And I'll be sure to link, um, your books in the show notes, including that poem. I'll be sure to have that included as well. Um, what was the type of poem you said it was again?

[00:17:46] Adrian: It says, it says Tina, you can tell from the repetition at the At the end of each line and so like certain lines keep keep are repeating and there's it's like it's the hardest form to to write [00:18:00] as a um Wow as a and so the it's the only one I ever written and i'm proud that it's about my stutter.

[00:18:08] Maya: That's amazing And when you're choosing what to read Um, like, does that one come up often as a choice of what you read or like?

[00:18:22] Adrian: Um, I don't know, but I actually got invited to do a, uh, one of my publishers. So they asked me to do a workshop about overcoming speech impediments and stutters. I'll be reading that poem for sure.

[00:18:38] Maya: And that workshop with Ernesto is going to be on Saturday, August 31st in Pasadena, California. The venue is still TBD as well as the time. So follow Ernesto on his Instagram page, where he will make an announcement on more details soon. All that is in our show [00:19:00] notes.

[00:19:00] Adrian: I'm hoping that, you know, that'll bring out people.

I think especially in. in the Latino community. Um, we have, there's, it can be, I don't want to over generalize for everybody, it's dangerous, but I know that there's a, there's a level of not wanting to explore any kind of pain or any kind of suffering. Um, a lot of times it's looked down upon to look at therapy, Or if you have like a stutter, you kind of like, you don't want people to know and stuff.

So I'm hoping that by being vocal, it'll bring people out. Cause I ha I have a, the first poem in my new book, my way inside me, um, it's called my stutter is me, uh, the center. And I stutter mostly when I speak Spanish. So, so when [00:20:00] I. When I read, um, the bilingual poems, I stutter more, but, so this is, um, my poem.

When I stutter, it's mi acento. When I stammer, I try to pronounce my own nombre, recordando la chica mala laughing en la escuela primaria, mocking me and girl because I sound like I'm from outer space when I try to speak through oraciones, as if I'm soaring through the inner spaces of mi garganta. Mi lengua seems to trip relics.

Around strangers extrañas they glare at me, their ojos asking, De dónde eres? I want to speak a broad alto answer, even though sigo vivo looking like I am. I, what, what, what, what? I choking . But now that comes up. Let me dare. When everyone stares at myself, conscious blushes, feeling like an alien without a voice as I try to converse when words actually sneak out.

Solo is between my faltering [00:21:00] spaciousness and in Espanol even gasping to articulate any less. Look beyond my tan piel, all those años I've tried to enunciate, you will always know it, my stutter es mi acento. It's basically, um, it's about, the poem's over, it's about my stutter being my accent, because I don't have an accent.

You know, some people who are bilingual have an accent from their culture. So I feel like the stutter for me is my accent. So that was like a, uh, a tribute to,

to, uh, my, my stutter. And this book is about me rediscovering my bilingual voice because I stuttered so much in my, uh, family tongue. Um, I kind of avoided a lot, but when, uh, right after my mother died, one of our family friends, who was like a second mother to me, um, [00:22:00] I sent her some of my bilingual poems and I didn't think that it was like anything.

And she said, Adrian, I love what you're doing with bilingual poems. I've never seen anything. It might do it. I think you should do more of it. And so she encouraged me. That's what led me on this path of writing about bilingual.

[00:22:19] Maya: Yeah. I've never seen this type of poetry where it kind of combines two languages.

Is that, have you seen that elsewhere at all?

[00:22:30] Adrian: No, not really. I feel like growing up, you know, my mom spoke to me in Spanish and my dad spoke to me in English and there's a lot of Spanglish going around. And I think that's the way that I was raised. And I think because I'm mostly, I'm a little more confident in English a little bit.

I'm still, um, learning to get confidence in my voice. So I kind of feel like this is like my, my four way into [00:23:00] accepting, not accepting, but, um, honoring this part of my culture that I haven't really, I just started to honor being that, uh, which is why, uh, the cover is. The American flag and the Columbia flag and my glasses because I always feel like I'm in the middle.

[00:23:18] Maya: So that's kind of like, I literally have chills. That is so beautiful. Um, yeah, I, I know that you've, I want to talk about some of your other poetry books and like, what, what I guess inspired you to write?

[00:23:40] Adrian: Some of your most recent work. Cecilia Plath has been, uh, recently, it's been such an influence in my life.

Cause right after my mother passed away, um, I was really struggling with her loss. And, um, I was very sick. [00:24:00] And, uh, cause my family lives in San Antonio and I, and my dad put me in charge of her, um, memorial service. And it was a lot of pressure on me living in, living in LA. And so when I came back, it was, it was just a lot of stress.

And so when I came back and I was at my, uh, my desk and I was trying to find a way to challenge some kind of creativity to get me out of this, you know, to not to get me out of it. It's just kind of faced a lot of the grief and I turned and my wife had a copy of the bell jar and I picked it up and I just started, um, I went through the first chapter and I started.

And then I created these poems from each of the chapters and that actually helped me just being, I think Celia Plath was helped me the first year, the most having like a mother figure that's not really there, but somebody was whose work just totally [00:25:00] inspired me. And to this day. I owe a lot to her because when I was at my lowest, she was there and I feel like, and it's interesting because as I was writing this, I was reading a lot of her biographies and just reading any kind of criticism and stuff on her work.

And she was just such a part of my life for a long time during that whole year. Two years afterwards that. When I read that she had, in this biography, that she had died, it, like, it really, um, it affected me because it was, I felt like she's, her spirit was there with me and so I remember texting my wife, Sylvia Plath died.

No, I mean, she was already dead already, but it was just like, she was such a big part of my life. And, uh, a couple weeks ago, uh, poet Lauren, uh, Davis had just published, uh, a, um, [00:26:00] poem was, um, inspired by Plath. And she says, she contacted me, she sent me a Reddit, it was fantastic. So we had a reading and I got to read all my Plath poems and it was just a joy because I remember, it's reminded me just how, how much, um, she, she was there for me and she got me through, she

got me through one of the hardest times of my life. And it was just. To be able to honor her again, it was just like, and just reading those poems again, I just felt like this. this really, uh, connection to her. And I still have a book of hers by my bed that, uh, so like, I, I, you know, I just feel like I have a really strong connection to the class.

I met a lot of poets recently, [00:27:00] like Jean Pierre Moreira and Sonia Gutierrez. And, uh, Virginia Boasio, who are, who are, um, Latino, and some of them, uh, they write in Spanish and English. So I kind of felt, I've created this new community of Latino poets that I'm very close to. And, um, so that's actually been, uh, an amazing thing.

to meet somebody who understands your culture and stuff. It was really, um, been there for me, but I kind of feel like I'm about to embark on this new journey of meeting, um, a new tribe of people who, who stutter. So I'm looking forward to embracing that new part of my life. That I haven't really really tapped into just because it just it just happened and I'm looking forward to uh [00:28:00] to meeting a lot of people hopefully being an inspiration to people who who have maybe are suffering or maybe not suffering but have it and just to know that you can have a career you can have a life you can have days where just the words aren't going to come out but that's okay because it's it's part of who you are you should be proud of it and I actually have a friend of mine who told me this.

That I, I have taken her words as my mantra, as my, my setter, as my superpower.

[00:28:31] Maya: And what's, what's next? What, what are you, what are you up to in the future?

[00:28:36] Adrian: Next year, um, I'm going with my wife, my father and my brother and my sister in law. We're going to Columbia and I haven't been back since I was like, So I kind of feel like that's going to inform what my next project is, but I have a couple of things I'm working on, but right now I'm just trying to, you know, um, trying to promote this [00:29:00] book, this in which I'm really proud of, you know, took a lot to write, so I don't know where it's going next, but I know that, um, being, uh, A stutter is going to be part of the next chapter of my life.

I just don't know what it is yet. And I'm just, I'm excited to where the road's going to lead. I mean, if you were to tell me five years ago, when I first started and published. I would be at my sixth poetry book, have won a couple of awards, and I'd be like, what? And so, uh, I'm just looking forward to meeting more of my tribe of people who stutter and people out there who do stutter.

You can have a very happy life. I mean, I mean, my wife loves the fact that I have a stutter. I met somebody. Uh, I've been married for 14 years. Somebody, you're going to meet [00:30:00] somebody who's not going to laugh at you, who's going to be supporting of you, um, you're going to meet people who are going to help you out and be there for you.

There are going to be plenty of people who are not going to. But the people who are with you and support you and love you. And those are the people we need to stay connected with. And so, uh, uh, I kind of feel blessed. I get to do what I love, um, every day. And, uh, and it's not a perfect, you know, I kind of wish I'm not going to lie to you until you're being a poet is a very financially lucrative career, but you know, I get to do what I love.

People can say that. They can wake up and do what they love. And, uh, yeah, I'm very blessed and lucky.

[00:30:51] Maya: Yeah. And thank you so much for being here. And I'm so happy to know that, you know, [00:31:00] your. You know, you are telling these beautiful stories through your poetry and to have people who stutter write poetry and share in the world, I think is really going to make a better place for all of us who stutter.

So thank you. And I'm excited to continue to follow your work. Thanks so much for having me. It's amazing. I'm so glad that we reached out. We connected. It gives me and we get to have that conversation and kind of. Time flew for me, so I don't, I feel like, it feels like we just started talking, so it's interesting how that happens sometimes when you, time flies when you're having really great, great conversations.

[00:31:45] Adrian: So thank you so much for your questions and for having me on. Um, we're blessed and honored to be here.

[00:31:56] Maya: And that's it for this episode of proud stutter. [00:32:00] This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork. By Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter. com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.