Tips for People Who Stutter: Public Speaking, Dating, and Building Confidence

Transcript

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I'm Maya Chupkov, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. I'm your host, Maya Chupkov, and today on the show, we have Laron Barton. Laron is a TEDx speaker, author, and person who stutters. Welcome, Leron, to Proud Stutter. Thank you for having me on the show, um, Maia. I really appreciate it. You've spoken at a [00:02:00] ton of events. You've spoken at universities, workshops.

What drew you to being a public speaker? So, I've always loved to talk. I mean, I I love having conversations. Um, I love discussing ideas and concepts and, you know, I would more than anything. My I love to hear stories. And so 1 of the ways that I've been able to accomplish all of that is to be able to give talks.

It kind of go kind of goes against what. It's what stutterers are, right? I mean, we sometimes don't talk because we're so afraid to stutter, but it's like my mom said, like, you know, she, he just, he just won't stop talking. So, you know, that's, that's what it was. Is there a memory that That sticks out to you that really you feel helped inform [00:03:00] you getting the confidence to speak out publicly with, with your stutter.

I kind of owe that to uh, My, my mentor, the great Stan Banks out of Kansas City, Missouri, um, Stan Banks was my writing professor in 11th and 12th grade. And so we would write poetry and 1 of the 1 of. The responsibilities in the class is that you have to go to a poetry slam, you have to go to an open mic and start reciting your, your poetry like you like you had to do, you had to do that that was a requirement of the class.

And so, That got me comfortable with getting in front of people and talking. I mean, you know, at, at my core, my, uh, I'm a, I'm a poet. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I don't, I don't write that much poetry now, but just [00:04:00] being able to recite poetry in front of people that, you know, you don't know, and just being on that stage.

Like there's a certain nakedness you have, and that's what got me. used to speaking in front of people. And, you know, I've, I've stuttered plenty of times in front of folks, but that's what kind of got me on that road. It sounds like you view your stutter quite positively. And I sense that you're very comfortable in your speech.

Was that always the case or how has that evolved? Oh, no, no, absolutely not. Listen, you know, you got to understand like Kids can be cruel. You know, I always say that. And so when you have a stutter, when you look or sound different than, than other children, they tend to sort of pick at that, you know, my, uh, it's taken me a really long time to get comfortable with my, with my stutter, [00:05:00] like there were times in class that I didn't raise my hand or say anything because I wouldn't, because I was afraid to stutter jobs that I would Go for like, if it was a phone interview, fantastic.

But if it was in person interview, I get scared because I'm like, oh, shoot, you know, I have to talk in front of somebody. So I would, I would get scared of stuttering, you know, even talking to people, you know, being involved in and just. different like groups. Uh, you know, if I wanted to ask a woman out, I'd be afraid because I wouldn't want to stutter.

And, you know, I've been ridiculed, you know, I've been laughed at, I've been teased. And it's one of those things where that, is always in the back of your mind, right? You're like, okay, you know, if I, you know, am I going to set or, you know, let me try to prepare what, what I'm going to say. But yeah, it, it, it was, it was really rough for a good chunk of my life.

So you mentioned, [00:06:00] um, asking girls out one of you, you started it. I'm just kidding. Um, No, one of the most common things I always get asked about is young people emailing me talking about, like, dating advice. Right. You know, like, you know, that's the way, it's not about the job, it's not about the school, it's just about how do I ask this person out without, without certain, this is the priorities of, of, of the American, uh, male and female here.

It's just like, Yeah. Cause that's a struggle. Like I, speaking from my, my, myself, like I didn't have a romantic relationship until like the last few weeks of my senior year of college. Cause so, um, yeah, so I would, I would say that dating was pretty rough for me and I think it was more about [00:07:00] my self confidence influenced by my stutter than stuttering itself.

And so, um, so yeah, I don't know how open you want to be about the whole dating experience, but that's definitely a hot topic. So I'll tell you, so there, so there are two, uh, instances that. That stick out, right? So I remember, gosh, when I lived in Kansas City, there was this, this is woman I liked a lot. She worked at this place called Quick Trip, you know, which is, I don't know, uh, like San Francisco, San Diego, LA.

I don't, I don't think that they have Quick Trips. I believe we have 7 Elevens, but Quick Trip is this, this big, like, Sort of, uh, gosh, it's this big conglomerate of gas of gas station. It's a, it's a chain of gas stations. It's like a convenience store as well. And so it was this cashier and, you know, I would talk to her from, from time to time and, you know, we, you know, we kind of got to know each other and I [00:08:00] was like, Hey, you know, may I have your number?

I'd love to take you out. And she's like, sure. So my, I didn't forget, I gave her a call trying to set up the date and I stuttered so bad and she was like, okay, well I'll talk to you later. Bye. And I never heard from her again. And I was like, damn. But, you know, she ended up having a child with somebody, so, you know, God bless her.

Then there was this one time, and this one is, uh, I was in San Diego with my, with my friend, Andrea, and I saw this woman, she, I, I, I still remember how she, like, she was so beautiful. And, you know, my friend, you know, I was at, I talked to, Talked to her briefly and I talked to the woman's friends and they were saying, yeah, you know, she's dating, but she's available.

And so I go back and I, and I talked to Andrew and I'm like, yo, Andrew, like, I can't, I can't ask this girl out because I may stutter. And she's like, oh, you know, you never know. She, she may find that endearing. And I [00:09:00] was like, who that, like, I'm not a puppy. I'm, I'm. I'm not a stuffed animal. Like, yo, like no one's going to find that no one, you know, like your, your first impression of somebody, Oh, can I have your, no, like, no, no one's going to, no one's going to find that attractive.

So, you know, I, I never talked to her, but these were always things that I was always cognizant about. And just, it was just in the back of my mind. It's like, yo, you know, what if I stutter? You know, what if I mess up? And it just, It really kept me from doing a lot of things that I wanted to do. And you mentioned you, you have a girlfriend.

Are you open with her? Like, were you open with her about your stutter when you first started dating? 100%. Anybody that I, so my, you know, what's funny is like, when I initially go on a date with somebody pretty early on in that date, I say, Oh, by the way, if you, if you haven't realized, or [00:10:00] if you haven't noticed, I have a stutter.

I tend to talk this way. I sometimes go on these, some, sometimes go, gosh, what do I say? I, I tend to sometimes. Going these these little travels that is whatever but I tell people, you know off the rip Hey, listen, I have a stutter because my I find what that does is that eases my anxiety and that allows me to go Okay I got that out the way.

So, you know, I don't have to live up to some expectation of talking perfectly because look, you know, we stutter is something that we do will never stop. There is no, there's no cure for it. So we just have to just live with it. And, you know, so I would rather just tell people. Immediately, Hey, by the way, like I was in a, um, work meeting recently and, you know, we're going around table and introducing, and that's, to me, that's one of [00:11:00] the worst things because like, you know, you're, you know, you're counting like the people that are, that are, you know, in front of you and, and you're like, okay, two more people, then one more person that you're like, Oh shit, I'm shoot.

I'm next. And so I just told, told everyone, I was like, listen, by the way, if you haven't noticed, by the way, I talk, I have a stutter. And this is how I talk. And so I just face it head on. Like, I'm just like, look, this is the way I speak. You know, for the most part, people have positively, um, had good feedback.

You know, there, you know, there have been certain jobs that, that I have not gotten, because remember there was a one company, uh, this is one staffing firm that I was trying to get a job with. That was, it was, it was an, I, it was an IT. I was going to be working with C suite folks. And the person that I interviewed with, she said, she.

Gave feedback to the consulting firm. She said, I would not feel comfortable having him go in front of C suite people [00:12:00] and talk to him. And so that's just something that we have to face, you know, that's, you know, there's going to be some positions that we, that we may be locked out of. There's going to be some opportunities we may not be able to be able to get, but, you know, that's it.

You know, everything's not for every, for everybody. And I love this quote of Maya that I've been, I've been just loving recently is that what's for you will not miss you. And I 100 percent believe that. You mentioned that you disclose your stutter. Yes. And I, I disclosed my stutter too. But one of the things that sometimes bothers me about disclosing is because I, I don't, I can't always predict what I'm going to stutter, right?

Like it comes and goes, like I could be on stage, [00:13:00] not stutter once, or I could be on stage and stutter a lot and, and let's say, yeah. And then let's say I disclose at the beginning and be like, Oh, Hey guys, by the way, I stutter and then I go through my speech, don't stutter. And people are like, wait. Like, I'm confused.

You said you stutter, but I don't hear it. Right. Right. Right. No, I, I've gotten that before. You know, people, whenever they would watch a TEDx amount, or they would just watch just any type of, uh, talk or just listen and they're like, Oh, he says he stutters, but I haven't heard him stutter. I'm like, look, it doesn't happen.

You know, like instantly like I can't call on it. I mean, the only thing that I'm confident that I'll study more of is when I've been is when I've had a couple of drinks, then I'm like, you know, it kind of gets a little more but but I mean, it's you know, it comes and goes like I would always say my You [00:14:00] know, Oh, you know, it, it kind of comes and goes and it, and I'll have a period where I stutter for like weeks and months and then it'll go, go away, you know, but I just believe that now that I'm just more cognizant about it and I'm just, I'm like, okay, I know what to do when I start stuttering, let me pause, let me stop, take a deep breath, you know, pause for a second, then start talking again, you know, I, I call that as kind of a reset.

Okay. And that's helped me out quite a bit. And when you're preparing for these talks, like I know you've done TEDx talks, like, how do you prepare? Because you mentioned earlier that you like to kind of go off the cuff, like before we recorded. So how do you kind of balance both of those things? Sure. So the thing about a TEDx is that, um, when you write the speech, your speaking coach, your speech coach and [00:15:00] the organization will review your speech.

You just can't get up there and just say anything. Right? So I, I always believe that in the, uh, mon the mantra, the, um, this proper preparation prevents poor performance, the five P's, it's, it's never failed me. It, it's like, it's guaranteed almost like the love of God. It's just. If you practice, if you prepare, you will not fail.

And so when I do a TEDx, I have to memorize this speech. And let me say the first time I did it in 2018, I, gosh, I, I spent three months memorizing that, that speech. Like my, I would practice it almost every day. I'd listen to it. I practiced it at least three times a day. Like I was just constantly, because here's the thing.

When you give that talk, you're going to be in front of people, right? And so, as a stutterer, [00:16:00] one of our biggest fears is stuttering while we're trying to give a speech, right? People have a fear of speaking publicly. I don't understand why, but, you know, but, you know, whatever. That's people's fear. So, you want to make sure, or you want to be able to just recite the speech almost verbatim.

And, and when you practice it so much, Maya, it just comes natural. It's like riding a bike. It's just like automatic, you know, people tend to mess up when they try to go off the cuff. Or even so, even if you memorize it, and this has happened to me four times out of four, right? Even if you memorize it, Maya, you're, you're, you're going to forget one.

You're going to forget, you're going to forget a couple of things. I don't know why, maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but you have to know how to recover. And for me, Maya, that's [00:17:00] just being able to know what you're talking about. And that comes with practice. You know, I mean, I went to Toastmasters before I did my first talk.

I mean, it's very important that we are as prepared as we possibly can be. Because doing a TEDx is, it is a privilege. And, you know, I, I speak of this not only having done for, but also being a TEDx coach, as well as being a part, as well as having been a part of a TEDx curation team, putting the TEDx on.

That's, I mean, it's a lot of work, so I've been on both sides. I've watched people give, give TEDx, and I've given TEDx's. And the number one thing, you gotta prepare. You, you, like, it's not a keynote. You're it's all about the idea, but you have [00:18:00] to have memorized that that speech because there because there's no key cards This has to be 100 percent off the dome.

So I would like your advice because I actually have A speech coming up on Friday. Okay. That's good. That's what's up. Um, I, I have to be realistic. I'm not going to be able to memorize it because just my lack of time. And so my plan is like, I got these large index cards that I'm going to kind of put a few of my parts of my speech on it.

Um, one, because I don't want to. Like, I, I, I don't want to be distracting with, like, my big thing of paper, and, um, and I tend to, like, use my hands a lot. In a distracting way, um, but yeah, I'm wondering if you have any advice for me as I'm preparing for this, knowing that I'm not going to be [00:19:00] able to memorize it.

Okay. And I only have a few days left and it's going to be, you know, 20 minutes and it's going to be like a very welcoming audience. So it's not going to be like a formal audience. Right. Great. So they, um, so you're, so do you feel comfortable being, uh, being in front of that audience? You're like, you know, it's sounds like it's a lot of love.

So do you know the subject that you're talking about? Stuttering. Oh, okay. Um, okay. Wonderful. So You know, when I did my first headaches, I wanted to do something that I knew this, I wanted to do the TEDx on something that I knew inside and out, right? That I just was something that was so close to me. And I believe that a stutterers, we know stuttering more, more than probably, probably anything we do.

We, we know big is like, I know love of God, love, love, love my mother. And I know [00:20:00] stuttering. So I'm kind of an expert. Uh, so, What I would, what I recommend to you is that, you know, the, the speech. Just break the speech out in a, in a sort of an outline, you know, start middle in and use the cue cards as sort of a guide, not at not reading, you know, verbatim off the cue card, like, you know, ABCD, but just simply occasionally glance at them like, oh, okay.

So, you know, this is, this is the part where I'm supposed to talk about this. This part where I'm supposed to talk about that. I would practice as much as I can. You don't have a lot of time. So I would. After this podcast, start practicing. I mean, just, you want to make sure that you're comfortable sort of going from one part to another and using your hands, like, listen, you don't want to be a speaker where you're just standing up and just like this.

You know what I mean? You just got like your, uh, your hands, your side, listen, there's a [00:21:00] guy. And I tell this to all my, uh, to all my students, right? There's a guy, his name is Magnus Walker. He did a TEDx in UCLA. This guy, he just, uh, my name is Magnus Walker. Uh, this, this, he just has it. He just has his hands to the side.

This Tenex has got 9. 8 million views. He's not the most charismatic. He's not a charismatic guy, but so I say that to say I move my hands around a lot, but that doesn't mean that You have to, you know, Maya, if you, if you do that, continue to do that. My, one of my biggest advice for people who are speakers, people who want to be speakers is just sound like you, sound like yourself.

Don't try to, Sound like what you think people want you to sound like, don't try to be all [00:22:00] buttoned up and professional. If, if you have an accent, use your accent. If you have a stutter, stutter, if you, you know, if you like to use slang, use slang, just be authentic to yourself because I guarantee you that the idea of the subject is going to shine through and you know, you're going to be confident.

Listen, when you do this and do you, do you do speeches a lot? Uh, my. Yeah, all right cool. So so I'm pretty sure you know, this is like, you know, the first part maybe like a little Maybe like a little rocky, right? Yeah. It's, it's like pushing that, that, uh, when we were younger, we used to have these things called big wheels.

I don't know. Your generation may not, may not know what a big wheel is, but it was just essentially like a tricycle. For kids. And it had these huge big wheels. It's plastic, but, but it's like pushing that big wheel up the, up the hill. And then like, [00:23:00] as you start to speak, you get more confident, you know, you're feeling it, you know, the, you get the crowds energy and so the big will kind of goes down the hill.

So I would just say just, you know, use the key cards as your guides to which parts you need to sort of expound on and talk and talk about just. You know, gently glance at them and just keep going. So my last question is about like representation and stuttering and like being able to find people that you can look up to that look and sound like you.

And so I'm wondering, like, do you have anything to say about that? It's hard to be what you don't see. Right. And so again, you know, Stan Banks. I'm sorry, is a great writer. He just, I mean, [00:24:00] he, he's, he's very, very, very good as a poet, as a speaker, you know, and so seeing, seeing him and he was, he had a lot of, um, Stan Banks had a lot of respect, I'm sorry, has a lot of respect, has a lot of respect.

And so I think that, you know, being who he is, is incredible. So me seeing that just was just, just was like, wow. But also, learning about who has stutters. I mean, look, James Earl Jones. is an iconic voiceover actor. I mean, he says that the tagline, this is CNN. I mean, he's Darth Vader. Like, you know, he has a stutter, uh, Emily Blunt, the actress, she, you know, she has a stutter.

I think Bruce Willis had a stutter. Um, I'm sorry, has a stutter. I mean, Bill Walton, the, you know, the late great Bill Walton. Who recently passed, he had a stutter. So you have all these [00:25:00] people who were truly great at what they do have stutters. And they did not let that stop them. And that is the key, Maya, is that you can't let your stutter define who you are.

I mean, yo, it's not going anywhere, but it's not all who I am. I'm more than my stutter. And I think that that is the one piece of advice that I would like to give to anyone who is scared to talk, you know? When we start riding, riding bikes, right, we're going to fall real tall. I mean, like, you know, I always say no one is good off the porch initially.

Right. You know that. And, and. That's the thing about people is like, we want to be great immediately. It just, it just doesn't happen. Like Julia Cameron said, you, you can't be [00:26:00] great while learning. I'm sorry. Like you can't look good while learning. It's just not possible. And so I feel like that if you have a stutter, you should talk as much as you can, because what that does, um, Maya is that gives you confidence to.

Or, oh, you know, if, uh, if, if, if you started cool, let me brush that off. Let me keep going. See, once you continue to talk, your, your confidence continues to build, you know, it's, there's a concept it's called earn confidence, which essentially means is that when you, when you do something and you're successful, that gives you confidence to do something else.

You do something else and you're successful. That gives you the confidence to do something else. And just, it, it builds. You know, we, I mean,

we can't let people tell us that we are less, that we are incompetent, that we are incapable [00:27:00] just because we have a speech impediment. Everybody's got something that, uh, that they dealing with. Ours is just happens to be vocal. I mean, what are you going to do? Not talk? I mean, you know, if you're, it's just like the, with the apps, right?

You know, with the dating apps. You can message somebody all day long, but pretty soon they're gonna, they're gonna be like, hey, so can I see you? I mean, it's like, you know, I'm, uh, I'm, I mean, yo, like, you're going back to the dating thing. I mean, you know, you can, you look, and I used to be so clever, you know, from the written word because I'm a writer, right?

But, You know, you don't even have to meet somebody. Some, some women are, some women are like, look, uh, let's, let's, uh, let's get a FaceTime and, and unless you have Android, that's, that's kind of no excuse. So, I mean, like you're going to have to, uh, talk sooner or later. You, you cannot avoid it. So you might as [00:28:00] well like, uh, jump, jump out there as soon as you can.

And finally, Maya, if people make fun of you because you're shutter, they're self selecting now, because why do you want to be around someone that belittles your handicap? Like, like if you're laughing at the way out, the way I talk, Family, we can't be friends. I mean, you know, we can joke a little bit about it, but it's like, if someone's making fun of you, like, if you're the butt of someone's joke, because of the way you stutter, don't be around that person.

Like, that's peace, you know, deuces. So, yeah. I could not agree more, and I think, um, that's, um, That's a great place to end. Lauren, thank you so much for being on proud stutter. Where can our listeners find you? So, yeah, so you can find me at www. laurenbarton. com. Um, I'm on Instagram, instagram. com for slash Lauren L Barton on YouTube.

Just type in Lauren Barton. I'm all over there. And you [00:29:00] know, if you, oh, and also I'm very active on LinkedIn as well. If you have any questions, you want to, you know, You know, you got something to run by me. If you are interested in doing a TEDx and need guidance, please feel, please feel free to contact me right now.

Um, I'm running a pretty high, uh, pretty high bat, pretty high batting average of, uh, of, of about nearly 100%. So, you know, if you want to get on that stage, you know, let me know. And also if you would like for me to Come talk to your organization to your, to your company. Please book me to speak. I'm, um, I'm all, I'm always available.

So amazing. Well, thank you so much. And, um, yeah, I hope all you listeners out there had a nice time with us and see you next time. Bye. Take care.

That's it for this episode of proud [00:30:00] stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me. Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Diniz and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter. com.

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