Stuttering Advocacy in Action

Transcript

[00:00:00] This Wednesday, December 4th is Proud Studders Impact Campaign kickoff party. I can't believe it's already here less than a week away. This is your last chance to buy tickets to the event. It's in Bourbon, California and doors open at 7 p. m. Special guests include Ed Begley Jr., And our guest speakers include Burbank City Council member, Constantine Anthony, as well as the stars of Proud Stutters upcoming documentary.

We also have an amazing raffle of really cool prizes, including tickets to the LA Lakers and the Los Angeles Rams and much more. We have an open bar, free dinner. It's going to be such a magical event. And the latest announcement we have is. A teenager who stutters is going to be [00:01:00] playing music for us. So live music and yeah, we're just, we're so excited and Do not miss out on this event.

You can still buy tickets at proudstutter. org slash events. Can't wait to see you there. And one other thing I wanted to announce here is Proudstutter listener Sophie just launched an open call for submissions for a collection of essays called Still Speaking, a collection of essays on navigating life with atypical speech.

Her goal is to provide a platform for people living with. Atypical speech and voices to share their personal experiences of resilience, adaptation, and self acceptance. She is looking to include the stories of people living with ALS, cerebral palsy, spasmodic laryngeal cancer, vocal cord paralysis, unexplained voice pain, selective mutism, [00:02:00] Parkinson's, stuttering, and other conditions that make speaking or being understood difficult.

If you're interested in contributing a two to three K word essay, submit your application by February 28th, and the link to submit is in our show notes. Thank you all so much and go Sophie. I'll definitely be submitting something. Hope you will too. I'm Maya

Chupkov and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it one conversation at a time.

Welcome back to Proud Stutter. Today I have Puneet Singh. [00:03:00] Um, Puneet is a person who stutters, who also has dyslexia and dyspraxia. Um, he's a disability inclusion advocate working on the intersections of disability and climate change. He's based in New Delhi, India, and he co founded Billion Strong. Welcome Puneet to Proud Stutter.

Thank you so much, Maya. I think finally, I am so happy that I am here talking to you. I've been following your work, uh, for like three to four years now. And, uh, you know, it's been, it's been phenomenal, you know, the kind of work that you are doing for our community. Uh, I, I started, uh, my, my stuttering.

Advocacy, uh, looking up to you. You have been such, you've been there since the very beginning, I remember. Um, and it's been a long time coming, but I feel like this [00:04:00] is the perfect time to be talking cause you have a lot of like new initiatives and all that stuff. So I'm just excited that we are having this conversation.

Um, I'd love it if you can talk about your life in terms of India and like how you grew up. Um, and I think I'm most fascinated about like the culture around stuttering in India as well. Yes, I think it's very, it's very interesting. You know, uh, there are a lot of, uh, nuances, uh, when we, uh, talk about, talk about stuttering, you know, we have, uh, A lot of successful people who, who stutter, we have, uh, but in public spaces, but in, I would say, uh, in general settings, we don't have the exposure to the stuttering voices.

And this is what I, uh, uh, uh, through my, uh, [00:05:00] organization, I always strive, you know, that people should hear our voice. You know, because it's not, it's, it's, it's very uncommon to, uh, to, to, to listen, uh, to someone, uh, with stammering because people are like shy people are, are, are, are not wanting of that, you know, that, that kind of, uh, limelight onto, uh, onto them.

So I think it's very, very interesting. And also, uh, uh, through our movies, you know, it's, uh, uh, People of short stature and people tampering are the most, I would say, mocked upon. You know, these two are, I would say, the device of comedy, the device of mockery. So, uh, this has been changing a little in last three, four years, but mostly, you know, I would say whenever there was a person with stammering in a movie, you know, I used to just [00:06:00] wanted to become invisible because how they treat, you know, for just for comedy, you know, they exist in movies just for comedy and, and Bollywood plays a huge role, you know, uh, in, in, in India, like it's a, it's a part of the culture.

And, uh, it really affects and it's really, you know, it really creates that kind of loop, uh, with, uh, with teenagers. And this is how, you know, a new generation that will come and that will think of, uh, of certain people, you know, that they, they are like that. So, so that is, you know, a lot of activists are doing, you know, they are chasing Bollywood directors, Bollywood writers, you know, that you should change your approach towards, uh, uh, towards, uh, stuttering and I think changes, changes have been taking place lately.

Yeah, I can also see, uh, Um some change taking place too like you know, just recently A tv show called the penguin just came out with a stuttering [00:07:00] character that I felt was very much representative of you know, a lot of the experiences we have Um, but yeah, I I Of course, we still have a long way to go. I want to talk about your stutter origin story.

Can you talk about what it was like growing up in India with a stutter? As far as I remember, I started to stutter around seven or eight, you know, I was In between something that age and, uh, my father was, was abusive. And, uh, I think that played a kind of, uh, role in, in, in, in my, my stuttering, you know, the kind of violence that I observed that I witnessed in my, in my childhood had, had, had an impression on, on my personality.

And as soon as I [00:08:00] observed that I was. Stuttering and people start up my, uh, you know, my classmates and, uh, my friends, my, uh, the, the, the people I used to play with, you know, as soon as they started to, uh, notice that and, uh, they made sure that I know that I'm stuttering as well. So I think from that time, I, I, uh, opted to not.

Be very social. I started to, you know, uh, uh, be at my, my home and not go going out for to play. And also to not to participate in, uh, extracurricular activities. Otherwise, uh, before that I was very active, uh, child. I was participating in all the activities that that is possibly, you know, by singing and, and, uh, you know, talking a lot, a kind of, uh, Uh, giving, uh, that kind of, uh, you know, that child used to, uh, [00:09:00] uh, say, you know, alphabets that, you know, a, then B, then C and, and the other, uh, the whole class repeats after you.

I used to do that, you know, kind of. Kind of leader, you know, and then, uh, as soon as I started to stutter, I went, I become a backbencher. I, I stopped talking and I stopped, uh, responding to teachers questions as well. So, you know, that was a kind of, uh, uh, transition. And at the same time, I started to read a lot.

You know, I, I become a reader. I used to. Uh, write a lot and, and listen, you know, I observe like my observation skills really improved because, you know, I was just observing how the world is working, you know, because, uh, my father used to come, you know, we always used to be on our, uh, toes, you know, that we don't know what's going to happen, uh, but tonight, [00:10:00] so, you know, uh, these experiences, uh, uh, made me kind of, uh, And from an extrovert to introvert, most people who I interview, um, experience their stutter like as soon as they started talking.

But it's interesting. But for you, you kind of went through this transition at a really like pivotal age. Um, and so to kind of see how. Like the world around you and their reaction to you really influenced like your personality and how you navigate the world. That's, uh, it just, it makes me like, just want to work even harder for our community to just make sure that more kids, um, feel like they're not alone in that.

You know, they don't have to hide. So, um, so yeah, I know that, um, [00:11:00] you're a big advocate. Um, now, like, how did, how did you become to be an advocate? Like, how did you go from being like extroverted to introverted? And now it seems like you've, Really found a voice for yourself and our community. Now, when I look back into time, it all makes sense before that, you know, that I was just, you know, walking the path, you know, I was just trying to figure out my purpose.

And, uh, but now that I look at time, I was always an activist. You know, I was never that poor kid, you know, never, ever, you know, I always. raising voice against my father, you know, that you should not do that. I, I, I always used to be very, you know, I, I'm an over communicator, you know, I always make sure that people know what I'm thinking, you know, so I think, um, [00:12:00] that has really helped me, you know, because activists need needs to communicate activists needs to, uh, you know, simplify, uh, the lived experiences, you know, especially when it comes to, uh, the conditions of various disabilities.

So I think that that has really, uh, helped me in my, in my journey as an activist. And also, um, you know, I started to think of, I was thinking, yeah, that why the world is like that. You know, why my father, who is a very genuine human being, you know, very, I, uh, people generally find it very contradictory that, you know, I always praise my father and then say that he was abusive and he was like, how is that?

But it is possible. You know, uh, people, and I have seen, uh, in a really good human being be violent, you [00:13:00] know, being as bad as he can be. You know, then I started to talk to my mother and then, you know, going back into his childhood, he was never loved. He didn't get that attention he deserved as a and that, that kind of lack of self love that, uh, that, that he craved for.

He, he, he has that inner belief that, you know, if that this family belongs to me and that's why if anything that belongs to me doesn't deserve happiness, you know, they deserve doesn't deserve respect. So I think that, and I'm telling you that, that this is a nine, 10 year kid is thinking like that. You know, this is not me now.

I, I've made this conclusion at that age. You know, I've actually listening to my father and then, you know, it was, it was a very kind of, kind of very, I was [00:14:00] meditating on, on these thoughts and, and now I always think, you know, of human beings, of systems, of cultures, like, like that, you know, what's, what's, why?

You know, the how and the why. So I think these experiences have really taught me, uh, that, you know, somehow we say that, okay, uh, people are bad, people are good, but I always look for nuances, I always look for, uh, uh, the, the, the, the reason behind that and some, and most of the time, not always, most of the time, it really make, make sense, you know, how people are behaving in a certain way.

You know, and as an activist, you know, we, we are always criticizing, uh, the society, we are always criticizing some organizations, some people, uh, it, it, I think it's, um, important that we, uh, look beyond sometimes and also, uh, [00:15:00] look for like, uh, What's the, the, the, the, the intrinsic value, uh, that, that is stopping them for behaving in a, in a desired manner.

Wow. You were quite the insightful young person. I feel like I was definitely not asking those same questions at that age. So that's incredible that, um, that like, that's how. You were like processing a lot of things and asking the right questions and all of that. And I think that just speaks to like, why you're such an amazing advocate.

Um, and so you have a nonprofit and so What, like, is there any connection to, like, how you started thinking about all that stuff from an early age to, like, wanting [00:16:00] to create a non profit? I was very fascinated, you know, are actually working for a social cause. And they are making a living as well. You know, they are earning money.

I was, I was like, what? So when I actually come to know about that, know that this is what I wanted to do, because I was always volunteering in my schools. I was always volunteering for some thing, you know, some, sometimes I'm going for a plantation, sometime I'm going for, you know, for surveys. No, whatever.

I got an opportunity. I was always there. You know, always doing something around nonprofits and I really like, you know, how they, they, they used to work and how they used to, you know, approach, uh, the social problems, you know, everyone, every nonprofit has their own perspective. You know, it's so, it's so interesting, you know, somehow some people are saying that, okay, let's try that.

Someone is saying that, okay, let's, no, this will not [00:17:00] work. Another way will work. So I think that kind of dialogue, the kind of, um, uh, exchange that was happening, you know, in my, in, in my growing, uh, years, you know, I was very, uh, fascinated by that. And I was just observing, you know, I was just listening to what people, what these leaders were saying.

So I think I, uh, I didn't make that conscious choice then, but I was very interested in, in, in nonprofit. And then, you know, suddenly after finishing my, uh, my graduation, I did my majors in English literature. And I think literature. Played a huge role, you know, the kind of stories Jane Austen, you know, Jane Austen has been my favorite, uh, author, then the how she used to articulate, uh, these complex feelings and, you know, uh, circumstances, uh, she, that was like amazing.

So, uh, I think literature played a huge role in [00:18:00] my, in, in that. You know, in that growth, you know, that I was, I was able to look beyond my life. You know, that obvious sometimes we think, okay, uh, everything is wrong with me. You know, we always ask God that why me, you know, so I, I, it helped me that, you know, that these are, we are actually living stories.

You know, uh, you have a different story. I have a different story and how we can make this, this, this a better story. So I, I, I, I used to think in that, in that pattern and after finishing up my, my degree, I, I, uh, interviewed, uh, for, for an international bank and, uh, And that fine day, uh, I, I was able to go through, uh, uh, that interview because I didn't, I didn't stamp started in the interview.

I think I, I don't know because I was not, I was not [00:19:00] focusing on the interview, you know, I was just going, you know, okay, let's do two things because I was, I was, I knew I was trying everything, you know, so my, my friend said that, okay, there is this interview. I think you should go for that. And I said, okay, no, let's try.

And, uh, my, uh, my life for mantra would be to just try. You know, uh, so, uh, I, I did that interview and I got the job. I was very happy, you know, the first, I'm a first generation, uh, learner who has been to university, who has been caught a, you know, an organized job. So, um, I was happy and the organization was very good.

You know, somehow, uh, the culture was very good. People were really good, but one fine day I asked my manager that I want to host a team meeting. And the manager said that, okay, no, it's a very, um, you know, time is very less, you know, there is only 10, 12, [00:20:00] 12 minutes are there. And he thought that I would not be able to host that because of my, because of my stutter and no, it was not coming from a space of bad intentions.

I think he was trying to help me that, you know, he was trying to help me from the embarrassment. So, but that hit me really hard. Yeah. Yeah. So somehow people are, you know, People doesn't have bad intentions sometimes, but, you know, uh, but, but thanks to that, that incident, I, I said, okay, you know, I, I wanted to do something, uh, around the inclusion of, uh, of, of people who stutter in workplaces, in educational settings.

So I, uh, I left the job, you know, it was a tough time. Because our financial conditions was not very good. Uh, but thanks to my mom, she said, okay, you know, do whatever you want to do in your life. So she never said that, that, okay. You know, [00:21:00] think of your career and think of all of these things. So then I, uh, I started this, uh, This job, but this nonprofit, but you know, this small incident was, I would say it was my pinching point.

Yeah. And please, I'd love to learn more about your nonprofit and like how you made that transition and how it's been been going for you since you started it. It has been a very interesting experience. I don't know what I have been able to offer to my participants, but they have taught me a lot. You know, so I would say I am, uh, I've been the, um, top beneficiary of my nonprofit.

And, uh, I think I've been able to interact with, uh, people from, uh, different corner of, uh, of, of, of India. I, uh, be able to talk and share our experiences. And I think the best [00:22:00] thing that is the community, you know, that we form a community and, uh, just to reassert that, you know, we are not alone, you know, there are people who, uh, who started and, you know, they have been able to live their life quite fully.

So I think that. That realization, uh, for our participants was really important and, um, and, you know, we conduct workshops on various, uh, uh, you know, themes. Sometimes we, uh, do just on, you know, listening, you know, how to be best, better listener. And sometimes we do on, on the art of joy, you know, how to have, you know, that, that joy in our everyday life where we are just.

Trying to escape from public appearances, you know, uh, as, as people who started a lot of our participants was like, you know, I'm say used to say that, you know, I, um, always, uh, [00:23:00] try to, uh, escape from any. Any, any mere chance where I have to speak, you know, the participants in the beginning was really skeptical to even join our, our organization because they thought that they have to socialize, they have to interact.

So that was a huge challenge, you know, to make them feel that they are in their own space. And there is like no such, uh, uh, judgment or, or, or anything that is, uh, that, that, that's going to harm their self esteem. So it, it, it took a lot of time. It took a lot of efforts. And then I would like to share an, an, an incident that, um, We were having a very light, uh, session.

We were just talking and we were like, you know, telling jokes and all of these things. And then, uh, uh, one of our participants, um, tell us a very, uh, interesting joke. You know, it was very, uh, on the spot, you know, if I, uh, tell you now it will not [00:24:00] make any sense, but at that time, the timing and everything was, you know, the kind of situational joke.

So, um, And then we started to laugh and then when we stopped and then we're not trying to, uh, move to the next, uh, uh, point of conversation, he shared that it is the first time he's telling a joke in his life. So I think these kind of, uh, uh, incidents, you know, that was a very, I would say, uh, positive feedback, uh, from, from the participants.

Uh, especially, you know, uh, the kind of bitterness that he carry, uh, towards the society because he, I would say, uh, unfortunately, like, um, he has that a lot of bad experiences in his life. You know, uh, even if you, um, read, uh, his social media posts, like it's always getting some kind of, you know, very complaining about, you know, how, why society do [00:25:00] that.

Why employers are not giving him the opportunity. You know, he, he is good in what he do, but just because he's not good in, uh, uh, oral communication, he's not getting a job. So all of these burden that he's carrying, uh, uh, it's, it's, it's simply very. validating for me to give him that, that kind of small joy, that kind of, you know, little, uh, moments of happiness.

And this is like, you know, what, what's our purpose is, you know, I'm not, I'm not aiming for something revolutionary, but these things itself is revolutionary in one sense. That is incredible. Yeah. It's, it's almost like these simple moments for people can like be Like can be life changing. And I feel, I really feel that with, with what you're doing, um, with your non profit, um, and you have a new initiative that [00:26:00] you're, um, that you're, that you're working on, um, can you talk about green disability?

Yes. Uh, it's, uh, it's my passion project. And, uh, I would say, uh, in 2021, uh, around three years back, there was a very severe heat wave in New Delhi and it was touching around 50 degrees, uh, and it was really hot. And we, at that time we didn't get, uh, have the access to Air conditioning, you know, there was no source of cooling for us.

And my mother is, um, is chronically ill and she, uh, uh, requires, uh, some kind of, you know, temperature regulation, you know, for her. for our body. And, uh, I was, at that time, you know, I, I was not diagnosed with dyslexia and [00:27:00] dysplexia, but my, my motor skills were really affecting, you know, I was not able to do my everyday, uh, uh, activities at, at, at, at that time because of, you know, the heat.

Uh, and the severe, uh, air pollution that is, uh, that is, that is here in, in Delhi. So I think all of these experiences, I started to notice how people, uh, who are neurodivergent people who are disabled, uh, and chronically ill people are, you know, are being affected by, by climate change, you know, in a quite a very different and quite intense manner than the rest of the population.

And then I started to, you know, look up on, on, on internet and, and read these, um, these stories of, um, of, uh, various people, you know, maybe sometimes it's flood. Sometimes it's a heat wave, sometimes it's a hurricane, sometimes it's a typhoon. So any, uh, I would [00:28:00] say disaster, natural disaster, or, you know, the, the effects of, of climate change, uh, persons with disability is, uh, is the most vulnerable, uh, and marginalized, you know, as the largest minority in the world.

And we are not being considered in stakeholder, you know, when it comes to climate conversations. Especially, you know, uh, uh, I was reading some, some stories coming from us, how, uh, people, um, in the times of, uh, of, you know, uh, Disaster, uh, mechanism, uh, people with disabilities are the last and that should not be the case.

You know, we should be given preferences and all of these, uh, mechanism, all of these processes should be very inclusive and accessible, which is not. So I think it's a, my small effort. It's a community based, uh, uh, initiative where I'm trying to, uh, mobilize, trying to [00:29:00] organize, um, Our community and say that, uh, climate crisis is our crisis too, and, uh, nothing about us, you know, it's just a, a kind of, um, storytelling platform where we share that how people are just suffering in silence and there is no one, there is not even like media covering, uh, these stories at length, uh, which should not be the case.

And I feel like that's not something. That I even like was really thinking about until you just shared that story. And then just by hearing that story, I'm like, of course, like, there's probably so many stories like that. Um, so I think that's an incredible work you're, you're doing. And I think the power of like story to telling and really making sure that there's more like public conversation about it, um, [00:30:00] is super important and I just think There's, there's an urgency for that, just, just given the time clock we're on with climate change and all that.

So I really hope that, like, I'm sure like that will strike a nerve with hopefully like media and, um, And you'll be able to like get those stories out there. So that's an incredible, incredible initiative. And I wanted to give you just the space as we round out the interview to, um, you know, talk about any last thoughts, anything you want to make sure, um, that you wanted to share before, before we, um, close out.

I would, uh, just share that it's a, it's a very, um, Common compliment that we, we, we hear that, [00:31:00] uh, you, you, you are really a good communicator despite your stuttering. And I hate, you know, that word despite, you know, hate is a big word, but still, yeah, I could say it's a, it's, it puts burden back on me. Uh, I, I, I rather say that I'm.

I am, maybe I'm a good communicator and I stutter, you know, as simple as that. There is no, there is no contradiction. There is no paradox in these two things. And, and for all, all the people who are, who, who, who stutter, you know, who are, you know, trying to, uh, think and, uh, they say that, okay. We are having some challenges because of how we speak.

It is just a, uh, how you often say it's just a, uh, it's a, just a form of diversity, you know, manifesting in our, uh, in our [00:32:00] way of speaking, it says it's, it's nothing more than that. And, uh, If, if it's high time, we actually just started to think and started to normalize, uh, uh, stuttering as, as, as, as, as part of how we speak.

Puneet, thank you so much, um, for this conversation and you are just an incredible human. And I'm just so grateful. I feel like a sense of deep gratitude for all that you're doing and for also just being a huge supporter of mine. Um, and yeah, I hope one day we'll be able to meet in person. Absolutely.

Thank you so much, Maya, for this, this opportunity and I am really grateful. I'm really blessed for that. Thank you.

And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter. This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and [00:33:00] edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter.

com. And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.