Filmmaking, Being Biracial, and Hiding Your Stutter

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:  

Welcome back to proud stutter. Happy Stuttering Awareness Month. We are so excited for international Stuttering Awareness Day, which is happening on a Saturday this year October 22. All October long, proud stutter is partnering on a campaign to raise more Stuttering Awareness with face tropomi Our campaign is called stutter Tober every Tuesday and Thursday. All month long, we will be sharing a story and an artwork from a person who stutters from a rapper to a bus driver. Part of the campaign includes a pre released bonus episode of proud stutter. All you have to do is sign up to access the freebie. Also, we'll be giving away raffle prizes including stuttering theme posters, artwork, and more in honor of Stuttering Awareness Month. More details on proud stutter.com We look forward to having you join us to spread more Stuttering Awareness. All right now let's get to today's interview. We are interviewing today the wonderful Gina chin Davis. She's a writer and filmmaker. And she stutters she wrote produced and directed the award winning feature film I can't sleep which one best script at the Boston sci fi Film Festival and best sci fi film at the Midwest weird fest. Joining me in interviewing Gina, is Bay Area's Stewart Chefman, also known as broke as Stuart. He's a friend of mine. He's a writer, performer, TV host, newspaper columnist. Welcome both of you to proud stutter. Gina. I'm really curious if you have a pivotal moment in your stuttering journey that you can tell us about,

Gina Chin-Davis:

I think for me a pivotal moment when I was about 12. So I started stuttering when I was maybe around four. But I still stuttered. And for the most part, I was able to kind of hide it, which was a blessing and a curse. One time I remember, I was calling information. You guys remember information. And I was 12. But I couldn't say the name of the town. And my dad was with me this was on one of those hold big cell phones too. We were driving big cell phones. And the information person hung up on me because they couldn't hear me. And I remember being really upset and telling my dad you know, I just want to be able to speak. He got like really worried about me at that point. And he got me into speech therapy again. And I went and did another round of speech therapy, I got more practice in terms of hiding my stutter or being able to pass this fluid. But I still still stuttered. And I still do today. But you know, that's kind of like I think that was a pivotal moment where my family was like, we want to get involved in helping you not stutter anymore. That was what they felt was best at the time. And I think I also felt it was best at the time, although my story continued after that. And I still stuttered. So I had to keep dealing with.

Stuart Schuffman:

So couple things. First off, isn't it crazy how the 411 was basically like the internet before the internet, you could just call and ask any question. They somehow knew it. Besides that, though, and now as someone who doesn't necessarily stutter, how do what what skills are what? What tools did you use to cope with stuttering and to be able to hide it and pass?

Gina:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So I'll kind of break down the tools from speech therapy first. And so I did yeah, fluency shaping therapy. I recall, see if I can remember the four tenets of our diaphragmatic breathing. So breathing from your diaphragm, not from your upper chest.

Maya:

I remember that.

Gina:

So we did a lot of just diaphragmatic breathing, sitting on your back and breathing, practicing breathing from your diaphragm and then easy onset. So sort of hidden the words like smacks Mac like hitting them hard you kind of roll into them. So slowly kind of, and then and then the third is slow, right? So going speaking at a slow or a like that, and then phonation, which I believe I just demonstrated to some extent, but like, kind of blurring is kind of blurring your sounds together, blurring or sounds together. But you're supposed to get so good at it that you can speed it up and talk like this.

Stuart:

Did it help?

Gina:

you know, in some situations Yes, like, and to be honest, I do still sometimes use some of those seals, if I'm really in a jam, you know, like, if I can't get a word out, I'm like, maybe I'll just try to slide into it with my breath or something like that. And so sometimes they did. The problem is they are not foolproof, and you don't know when they're going to fail, or when they're going to work. So you can't necessarily walk into, and I'm sure my speech therapist at that time would disagree very strongly. But trust me, I speak from 30 plus years experience. You, you can't walk into a speech. Your valedictorian speech, not that I was valedictorian, but you can't walk into that being like, Oh, don't worry, I've got this. The tools, I just have to use the tools, and it's going to be fine, even though that's what everyone was telling me. They're like, Oh, you have your tools. You shouldn't study more. The truth is stuttering, this is not. It doesn't always want to cooperate with your tools. And I think people don't understand that. So yeah, those were the four tenets of fluency shaping. Now, I also combined that with lots of other little tricks, like, I'm sure you guys talked about, like secondaries. If I can't say a word, I'll start with saying like, um, or like, I used like, I was into the valley girl thing. Valley Girl was a talking thing. I was like, Oh, this will work. And I can pass. And I was using, like, all the time. And people were like, Why are you saying like someone? So it was? So yeah, lots of secondaries. Tricks, saying I had to go to the bathroom when it was going to be my time to read an English class, things like that. And yeah, it was stressful.

Maya:

Gina, how was growing up with your stutter? You said that your parents had put you in speech therapy. Were you always open about your setup with them?

Gina:

You know, it was really confusing for me, because when I was a kid, so I had that second round of speech therapy with the big fluency shaping stuff. And I and everyone else around me all through those years off in my teen years, it's like, oh, yeah, like, I cured my stutter. I went to believe it. I felt like, yeah, I pretty much don't stutter anymore. But I always felt it was my fault, because I wasn't like working hard enough at the tools or something like that. And I was like, if I just work hard enough, I really will be cured. But I was working real hard. And I think you know, for me, I got to college, I had some stuttering, you know, mishaps. And people didn't know that I stuttered. I didn't share that with people really. I share that with maybe a couple of friends. And that was it. And then, but then when I went to graduate school, I was really nervous about stuttering. And I ended up joining the NSA and meeting my stuttering community that because I was like, I need support. And that's when I started slowly, very slowly, coming out about my stutter. I mean, I was still really covert at the time. But that was I think the turning point getting involved in the NSA and experiencing like a different way that people relate to their stuttering.

Stuart:

Maya, when did you come out with your stutter? Because I feel like I've known you for a few years and I didn't even know that you stuttered until you started this podcast.

Maya:

Yeah, I mean, I didn't come out about my stutter until really the podcast. I did confide in a few friends. And when I told them they had the same reaction, like oh, I've known you for so long, like, I didn't notice. And it's funny because I had A Conversation with my Aunt Carol who I haven't seen in, like five ish years. And everyone was like, Oh, wow, like your podcast, I didn't realize you had a stutter, or that it was very, like they knew I had a stutter, because my mom would sometimes talk about it with the family. But they didn't realize it was like, this huge thing that weighed me down. And so what they said was, they just noticed that I paused a lot. Hearing my Aunt Carol say that, that she she didn't think it was stuttering, she just thought I was pausing a lot just made me realize, like, there's probably so many people out there that really do have no idea a person stutters. And they assume it's just a pause, or they're not able to, like think as quickly or who knows, but there's so many assumptions out there.

Stuart:

This as a question for both of you? Do you find that when you like drink, or like, you know, like, do something intoxicating? Do you find you stutter more or less?

Gina:

Not a big drinker? Cuz I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm half Asian, so I. But in the times that I have I don't, I don't notice much of a difference for me.

Maya:

Yeah, for me. I don't notice it as much. It's kind of like, I kind of just let go more. And the alcohol makes me just not think about my stutter as much. So I couldn't be stuttering all night. But I guess the alcohol just makes me less aware of of my stutter in that way. So it's interesting, because I've heard other people say that they because of their stutter, alcohol actually makes them more fluent. But I'm wondering if it's it just makes them more okay with their stuttering, because the alcohol kind of releases the tension a little bit and all those thoughts in your head?

Gina:

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It makes people even be less self conscious.

Maya:

Exactly. General. Yeah. I want to talk Gina a little bit about what drew you to film you are a film maker that has has won multiple awards? And I'm curious on whether or not your film, career has anything to do with your stuttering journey? And if so, how?

Gina:

Oh, yeah. I think it's definitely, it's definitely intertwined. So for film, so since I was a really little kid, I was into writing, like, that was my thing. And then I was really little, I wrote my first story. And I was like, really young, like, four, maybe. And I was into stories, and I kept writing all through school. And that's what kind of kept me sane, you know. And I think that writing was a way of expression, first and foremost, for me that didn't involve speaking. And I felt like I think I always felt compelled, even as a child, to share things with people to communicate with people to share stories. I don't know how to, like, have that creative connection. And so writing was the way that I did it. And I always thought I would be writing but when I was about 13, my dad so my dad worked for many years in television, producing, writing, directing, he had this this job, this this shoot he was doing for a week for this project. And I remember it was like, right before holiday break in December, and I was in eighth grade. And I hated school. So he, he actually let me skip school for the week and be a PA on the set for the week, which was really cool. And I was kind of like, Yeah, I'll I'll get out of the school, like, fine. I'll do this. And I ended up really, I realized that I really liked being on the set. I just liked the energy of being on a set. And I liked the collaboration. One of the actors was my age who was like, another 13 year old girl, so I kind of connected with her too. And I like to be helpful. And that was when I kind of was like, hmm, maybe maybe I would like to do this kind of thing as well, like tell stories in this visual way. And then the year after, I saw this movie that changed my life that made me want to make films which was Rushmore by Wes Anderson. Classic, awesome class. It was so random how I came upon that movie too. I just, I had no I had not heard of it. But I was at Blockbuster. or, when when weekend's and they had these weekly newsletters about, here's some new films coming out, you should see. And I read about Rushmore and like what it was about. And I was like, Ooh, this sounds interesting. So I watched it. And I fell in love with that movie. I remember, like, watching the movie was like, Whoa, I, oh, this is like a kind of movie that I would like to make or something like that. So at that point, I started making films like I joined, like the AV film and video class at my school that they had. I learned how to edit and things like that. And I started making films, I started writing screenplays and things like that. Which was cool, because my dad was doing less stuff. Like he writes screenplays. And so he kind of could introduce me and teach me about it a bit. True. Yeah, what drew me to film I think I love music as well, too. It's interesting, because my mom's in music, publishing very into music, my whole family loves loves music. And I think that for in a weird way, this might sound strange, but I think like film is, is a way to combine music and writing for me, because I think music plays a really, really big role in my stories, and the stories that I choose to tell. And I think like being able to convey and share and influence emotion, like music has that capability, especially when it's combined with a visual medium. And I think I think at the end of the day, that's what drew me to film. Yeah. And it's just another way of expressing yourself. That's not to do with talking, which is nice, I think, you know, and it's not that I don't like to talk, it's just that I feel like my experience with talking has been kind of a struggle my whole life. And it's nice to have an area of your life, where you can express yourself without that same struggle. Although there's, there's lots of other struggles. But you know, without that same same struggle, it's like a free area to say and convey what you want to communicate to others.

Stuart:

That's fantastic.

Maya:

Thank you. So I know, representation is a big theme in your creative projects. And so I'm wondering if you can talk more about that, and the interest, sexuality. That's important when we talk about stuttering, and just storytelling in general. Yeah.

Gina:

Intersectionality is really interesting to me. So I'm, my mother's Chinese American, my father is African American, and, you know, growing up, this was just my family, you know, like, I didn't think anything of it. When once I went out into the world, that's when I started getting feedback about like, Oh, you have this different kind of family, your your difference, your, your mix, like I didn't even hear the word mixed until I was like, eight or something like that. And I was like, what does that mean? Because we just never really, like, you know, my parents taught me and my sister to be proud of our heritage, or, you know, history on both sides and everything like that. But it wasn't that big of a deal. In my family, and I'm talking like my extended families have cousins, aunts, uncles stuff, like that wasn't a big deal. But yeah, when you go out into the world, that's when people start to have issues kind of start to give you feedback. And you start to say, like, Oh, I think I'm, I'm different. And I think you can maybe tie that you can draw some parallels between that and like, the different models of disability, you know, like, the social model of disability, it's just like, society should adapt to everyone having like diversity, and different needs. I think that you know, it's a reflection on our society that we think like one way is normal. And another way is abnormal or different. There are some parallels with that, like, also, if people didn't have negative reactions to stuttering, I think we would all feel feel differently about stuttering, you know, like we would like and so I think it's kind of like the idea like, Okay, well, do I have to fix my stuttering so I can be normal like everyone else? Or does society have to kind of catch up? That's what was so cool about the National Stuttering Awareness Week, you know, my I know you you brought that into law. Or like you made it official in the city of San Francisco and I do think that yeah, and invite this podcast to it's about educating people so that what they you know, what maybe they thought was weird or abnormal in the past isn't so weird or abnormal, if they're educated and they can take an actually apply and integrate that knowledge which they have to do. That's part of it. You know, I didn't see many mixed Asian African American people on screen or whatever on film, probably. You know, I still don't to be honest, I don't see that many. And I definitely didn't see that many stuttering representations on film, either. The ones that I saw were negative.

Maya:

So what are the types of stories and projects? Do you want to create now that you're kind of getting into the groove of your filmmaking?

Gina:

I think for me, what I want to create in the films and the media that I create is kind of similar to how I felt growing up before I had my interaction with the world, which is like, it's just there. It's normal. And let's say there's a movie where the main character stutters. Like, I think it would be groundbreaking to not even address the stutter. And have the other characters just respond like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna listen to you, I'm not gonna be like, Oh, you stutter, I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say the word starter. Like, that's what I kind of want to see. And same thing with race, and you know, everything else, you know, I just, I just want to see it on there. Like, it's the most normal thing. We don't have to make a big deal about it. We don't even have to call it out. We just want to normalize it as being there. Because I think that's, you know, that was my experience in life. And I think that could benefit a lot of people.

Maya:

And what was it like making your first feature film, that is such a big deal, and it must have taken a lot of work? So can you walk us through what that was like for you?

Gina:

So okay, I'm making movies since I was a teenager, short, short films, like a documentary about my high school jazz that and go into play at Yoshis in Oakland, back in the day, which was fun. Yeah, or, you know, just little films that I would make with my friends, very short narratives, music videos, really into those. You know, I always wanted to make a feature movie. In fact, I wanted to make lots of features. And, you know, the issue is, is money. I went into the mental health field, that was what I pursued professionally, but I kept making films and writing or books, all sorts of things about, I want to say 2017 got to the point financially, where I could like, save some money, basically. And I was getting more work in the mental health field was working a lot. I was kind of like, well, you know, what am I gonna do with this money? I'm like working so hard. I happen to read about this thing called micro budget filmmaking. And specifically, the example I looked at was this movie called frisky by Claudia Pickering, who is very nice. She reached out to me afterwards, after my movie came out. And she filmed risque in San Francisco, I think, like 2016, maybe four or $5,000. And it was good. Wow, that's nothing, no, nothing. And she filmed in like two weeks, and it was good. She did a good job. In the movie, went on to the festivals and got some, some buzz. I was like, really interested in how she did that. And I was like, I think I can save $5,000 If you didn't know. So I was just like, studying the film was listening to every podcast he was on. This was like, I want to just do this. And she's in San Francisco, super expensive San Francisco, I think I ended up saving or working and saving $10,000 over about a year. And I had this plan that with $10,000, I was going to make my first week here, I was going to write it and direct it and produce it. I wrote a few different scripts that year, I knew that I had to write a script that was like, going to be able to be filmed on $10. And so the first two scripts I wrote there were a little bit too big in scope. So I was like, I'm gonna have to. And then I just had this idea for the movie that became I can't sleep, which is my first feature movie. And yeah, I like wrote the script. It didn't take too long actually, was kind of like two different ideas that I've had in my head for years and years that just kind of combined to make this movie. And I feel like I figured, you know, okay, like, what are the locations I have access to, to my apartment. I have access to my boyfriend's store, and I could film there. My aunt gave her permission for me to film at her house too. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this. And so I just went about once I finished and rewrote and rewrote the script, I started hiring cast and In auditioning, I just kind of did it. You know, I and I knew that this was going to be a big learning experience for me because I'd never made a film on this scope. It was still very small. And I was like, if I want to be a filmmaker, I wouldn't have to make films, because I really do think that's the only way to at least with film. You have to just go out and do it. Like you can sit in the classroom and talk about film all the time. And yeah, I took film theory classes in college I you know, I took screenwriting I was very much into it. But I was like, the only way that I'm going to learn how to be a filmmaker is making films, like, you know, bigger films now. I think I'm like, ready after making small films for a long time. So I did it, it was not easy. It was very hard. All in all, filmed about a total, I want to say like 12 days, you know, but I finished it. We finished it. I brought on my friend, the holographic children, singer songwriter, to do the score. Musics really important to me. And he did a great job. And then the movie was done. Suddenly, suddenly, I had a finished feature film. It was crazy.

Maya:

That's awesome.

Gina:

Yeah, it was really, it was kind of unreal. I was like, I remember it was October 2020. By the time the film like I like got the film was complete. And I was like, great, I can start submitting to festivals. And so I did. And we got into a bunch of festivals, and then it won some awards, which was really cool. During the pandemic. Yeah, it was great. It was like, you know, when I was struggling to make the film, and dealing with setbacks, and all that stuff, you know, it's kind of like, when you're making it, you're like, I don't know how this is going to find out if like, anything's going to happen with this, you know, and that's kind of how it is with a lot of undertakings that we do and but I'm very happy with how, you know, finishing it for one thing, and then also that it got into festivals, and that, you know, it like won awards. And then, you know, having having random people who I don't know, you're like, Oh, I watched your film at this festival. It was really good. And like, like, that was really cool. So I think I, you know, I couldn't have expected better. And, and it was a learning experience. I learned so much from that experience. And so yeah, so now I'm working on my next film, I'm working on the script,

Stuart:

This will be 11,000.

Gina:

You know, I could save, or, you know, I might ask for money or try to get get money somehow, I'm definitely going to have a bigger budget. But I want to film it at the end of ideally at the end of this year, although that's going to be coming up in like tomorrow. So, but maybe early 2023. And I just want to keep making films. And I also write and I'm gonna release a tiny book. I'm into writing, you know, really small, small books. I'm gonna release a tiny book in a couple of weeks. Just a random short vignettes that I've written a collection. Cool.

Maya:

That is awesome. Please let us know when that book is out and will be show we'll be sure to share it around. Gina and Stuart, thank you both so much for being on the show. It's been such a great conversation.

Gina:

Thank you so much for having me on. It was a pleasure talking to both of you.

Stuart:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me as well.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by a gusto, Denise, and our artwork by Mara zekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www dot proud stutter.com. And if you liked the show, you can leave us a review wherever you're listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for that the number to call in more importantly, tell your friends to listen to until we meet again. Thanks for listening. Be proud and be you