Receiving Stuttering In The Latinx Community

Transcript

Dee Jai Portual:  

So I ended up leaving that job in February and starting a new one in April and that's when I found your podcast. So when I started the new job, you know, a national stutter awareness week was like my second weekend my new job and I was like perfect. I'm like, hey y'all like this is my first time telling everybody off the bat but like I got a stutter and you know, it was just so a liberating and I'm so appreciative that I found your podcast. I'm Maia chupkov and I'm a woman who stutters welcome to Proud stutter a Show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it one conversation at a time.

Maya Chupkov:

Welcome back to Proud stutter today. I am joined by Brenda our guest co-host for this episode. Brenda is the founder of Ellis media. She's a Podcast manager and host of the podcast Ellas. Ellas media is a podcast production company dedicated to amplifying and empowering Latina voices in order to motivate our communities. We will be interviewing our guest for today Dee Jay, a creative Chicano soul from South Central, Los Angeles, California. Dee Jai currently lives in Phoenix, Arizona. DJ currently is a community organizer working towards environmental justice within the latinx community. Welcome both of you? I am so so so excited to have you both on the show.

Brenda Hernandez:

Very excited. Thank you for the invite.

Dee Jai:

Happy to be here.

Maya:

I feel like I met both of you in such unique ways, which is amazing. Now that we're here doing a podcast episode together. It's always super interesting for me to hear how people who stutter have found my podcast and DJ how you found me was truly truly unique and I think it would be a great story to kick us off. Do you want to talk about how we met?

Dee Jai:

I'm getting choked up. Just thinking about it. So let um, yeah, so I had started this new job. It was a complete transition of careers. I was spent the last nine to 10 years working in mental and Behavioral Health with young people and I had got this job as a community organizer for an organization called cheese Supply Arizona and they work towards environmental justice IT issues, but specifically mobilizing the latinx community and I have signed up and was encouraged to sign up for all these trainings to kind of help me just gain some some tools that I could probably use in the community organizing field. I've done Community organizing in the past, but it kind of different capacity never as a career. I was really just jumping on any and any training that I can find that would my might help and someone passed me the training on storytelling and I honestly didn't know what's expected. I had been like a ton of trains that week and after a while they just kind of like glazed over and I'm just like going through the motions on my okay, maybe that maybe this was a bad move signing up for all these trainings is you know, a lot of it's not sticking and none of it really speaking to me or giving me like these unbelievable tools that I feel like super confident, you know, and I was I was

I was listening to to the different storytelling projects that that folks have put together and and what issues they were working towards and trying to to address what their storytelling and and you you came on and and you shared the proud stutter. I had never really in the past really addressed my stutter, you know, not even really with family or friends. You know, it was something that I was always and embarrassed of you know, I think a lot of folks have to work through and post your syndrome just you know, as a fact of life and I always felt like my stutter like increase that sense of that sense of impostor syndrome, especially because so many of the things that that I've chosen to do career wise require me to speak require me to be a not just speak but speak alequately communicated message, you know Garner support how folks there's some really tough moments, you know, like speaking is always such a big part of all the things that I've done.

And in my life, you know, I I just wait when you when you shared your own Journey with stuttering and and I think you had shared as a stupid of an episode too. I I just felt seen in a way that I had never felt seen before.

And and and it's it's kind of funny because I feel like right now and like the cultural Zeitgeist. Like there's um, you know being seen representation these things are like part of the common like, you know conversations everybody's aware of what value representation has and but you don't I've never in my life heard it around speech or around having a set or a stammer, you know, and so I'm part of the technically like, you know, other marginalized groups other, you know, historically oppressed groups. And so I I get representation from those aspects, you know, being a brown person, you know, I'm seeing myself represented, you know, and all those things always

Matter on some level I guess but nothing ever felt so personal as this because this is something that like it. I don't share this with my with my family. It's not something we have in common. It's not something I have in common with my friends. It was something that's very specific to me and my personal experience, you know, moving through life. And so to feel seen it was just man. I I was driving from one coffee shops to another because that's kind of my workflow as I mix it up. So I'll try to shop while I was listening to to the rest of your your sharing. And I just started getting teary-eyed it. I'm like why you know, what is this liquid coming on my eyes like what's going on here? I'm gonna training for work. I'm not supposed to cry like this isn't you know, and and I just it was like this wave of emotions and I couldn't even really process it until like a couple minutes after you had already presented.

and…

yeah, and it was a Friday too and I so I just it was like the end of the day I was like, you know, I'm done I can't do anything else. I just need to just sit in this for a minute and And yeah, I think I messaged you afterwards because it was. It was a very unique and life-changing it experience.

Maya:

Wow, I did not even know that whole story so I am just so moved right now. I'm so happy that you got so much out of it. And I'm so glad you were in that training and I feel like we're just so bonded for like for life whether we like it or not and you and Brenda have a lot in common, and I know Brenda you have experienced a lot of. Not a lot, but some people in your life who who have started and so I'm I just really want to kind of bring you into the conversation in here. Your reaction or kind of how you're feeling right now?

Brenda:

Oh, yeah, of course first off. Thank you Maya for inviting me and DJ just I couldn't stop smiling. It's like my heart.

This is like feeding so fast because it's very true. I we talk about representation and sometimes for specific things to feel so isolating until you finally feel that you've been seen or heard and you're like, oh I am not the only one that is going through this or experiencing this right? And for me I what I mainly do is I started producing my podcast a yes. I host it and it was after a long journey of you know living and growing up in this country in the US and Being very frustrated with the lack of positive representation of Latinos of of our community in media and after realizing and working in traditional media in news. There was so little I could do I realized that Maybe instead of trying to you know pave Away In traditional media. I could create a space that where I could talk with my friends who I knew were inspiring and we're doing amazing things and share their stories. And from there it led to more than 70 Latinas. sharing their amazing work their journeys of just discovering who they are how their work has impacted or latinx communities and used how there have been opening the doors for the next Latin Next Generation.

Maya:

Wow, Brenda, I feel like me and you both went through very similar experiences because the whole reason or one of the biggest motivating factors in me starting proud stutter is because I had a toxic work environment. I physically could not get up in the morning because I was so afraid to go to work even though it was virtual and during covid I still felt afraid. And I just always found myself. Overcompensating and working really hard and just being miserable. And as soon as I started doing the podcast things started to change for the positive. And I really believe that. There is a power and really. Finding yourself and giving you nurturing the part of yourself that creative part of yourself that I have been neglecting.

Brenda:

Pretty much my whole life. I definitely agree about overcompensating. I as as a as a kid, I would always over compensate things and I was told by I remember like a professor in high school and I did I finished high school in Mexico City. She told me that I would never amount to anything in my life. and I had to like memorize my presentations so I could like, you know say in Spanish, I grew up speaking Spanish obviously, but it wasn't. in the same, you know intellectual level as my classmates as my peers and realizing that I'm not dumb that I am very smart that I can communicate effectively both in English and Spanish and that I have something to say and I do not need to overcompensate because I am doing my best. has led me realize to also not to overwork myself and I think DJ maybe you can connect with that like we us all three maybe overwork yourself. I could connect with you my about. Starting something which is a yes. Loving it living my true self living my purpose and being Like putting my you know bit of sand of change in my community, but also realizing oof if I'm not taking care of myself. and you know being somewhere in the healthy space in order to create and do that change. I have to also take the break to take care of myself, so I don't overwork so it could like you know. that balance of of being good with yourself, but also continuing to create and continuing to be a change in your community.

Dee Jay:

Yeah, that that really resonates with me that that striving for a balance. That's actually why I changed careers. I was working in mental Behavioral Health. It's what I went to school for, you know, we're specifically I've always had a passion for working with with teenagers the last program I worked for I I essentially grew this program from from the ground up working with 17 year olds who were in The Foster system and we're gonna be aging out and so we try to get them prepared, you know all around most of what we're dealing with multiple. You know it and diagnosis either mental health or you know, they might they might have a substance use issues a legal issues. And and the common thing was Muslim didn't have a support system. And so that that was kind of you know where I would try to fit in and our program was was meant to be that their support system and help them find a sustainable support system. But in that work like you can't really turn it off, you know, like you're you're you know, I would I would you know Do my 40 hours sometimes more and then go home and I'm still thinking about these kids because they're people they're human beings and and I I know that you know, if not me no one else it well and that's not entirely true. But I guess that's kind of the The Narrative that I would tell myself that would lead me to oh overworking, you know, and so I I got in that car accident and when I was out for those two months ages like oh man, I was like I couldn't sit still and I was it was driving me crazy that I wasn't able to to do the work and to be productive. And I finally I was letting people down and letting my family down and letting my kids, you know that the kids that I work with down and my team that I was supervising down and and so it was um, you know, it was kind of oh wake up moment for me and when I returned to to working January, um, and my stutter was kind of like this this consistent reminder.

Like I'm not okay, you know, I I am I'm too too too hard on myself was one of my takeaways like during that time and I was like, you know, I I, you know, that's a friend of mine recommended this this new position that I ended up getting recommended it to me and like I think he'd be good at this and and I was like man, I I had a fight through imposter sit for impostor syndrome in the mental health world for the last nine years. I finally got to this place where I was like, okay, I'm not that much of an imposter. Maybe I do deserve to be here and like I made the choice to just walk away and go try something. completely new but something that I feel like I can do a better job at balancing and taking care of of myself pacing myself and Yes, but both the your Journeys really resonate with me.

Maya:

Stutter is partnering with face tronomy on a campaign called stutter Tober every Tuesday and Thursday in October. We'll be lifting up a story from a person who stutters.

Check out our Instagram page at proudstutter to check out all the stories. We've shared so far part of the campaign includes a pre-release bonus episode of proud stutter. All you have to do is sign up on proudstutter.com to access the freebie. Also, we'll be giving away raffle prices including stuttering theme posters artwork and More in honor of stuttering awareness month and stutter Tober campaign. More details at proudstutter.com. Looking forward to seeing you joining us to spread more stuttering awareness.

I've been really thinking deeply about how different cultures approach stuttering and how we can do better in educating our communities about stuttering because I think it's really easy for people to brush it off or laugh about it when it really has very deep impacts for the person who stutters and so I'm wondering

DJ if you can talk about how your community receives stuttering from this socio-cultural lens.

Dee Jai:

Yeah, so it was never something that that you know, we ever talked about. And and two, I I don't part of me wonders if like is that because it was in as prevalent when I was here. I don't know but the other thing is also have have ADHD, um, which also wasn't ever talked about directly but the symptoms were and and I was constantly told to slow down, you know, because it kind of manifest as me also talking a lot talking fast and so, you know the stutter which is kind of thrown in there. I I feel like maybe maybe people saw it as as this is just all part of DJ and him he needs to slow down and take a break a breath and not be nervous and don't be anxious and I'm like, it's you know this that's not that So, you know, it was never really addressed as stuttering or or even as ADHD. It was more so just like A you know, I was encouraged to slow down and to breathe and to wrap up my thought, you know to to stay on topic. but the the part that that has has been more so a new culturally for me it is so I I wasn't raised speaking Spanish, you know, my my both my grandparents were raised in an era where it wasn't either allowed or encouraged to speak another language. And so they felt like why teach our children they're never gonna use the language and so then you get you know meet their generation and and I I most of the Spanish I learned I didn't learn till I was a teenager, you know working in kitchens and and made the effort myself but being a Chicano who doesn't Speak Spanish. I I speak a little now but it's it's not great. You know, I I would always get criticized for for not speaking not knowing my language, you know, and I I have always had this this desire and want to to learn and one obstacle that I I realized is my my stutter in Spanish. So just in general my the way, I experience my stuff my stutter.

More so now as an adult, it sounds more like like this like I'm repeating words or gets get stuck on a word but most most of my younger life. I remember growing up and still now most of all the time it's just I I can't even start the sentence, you know, like I I heard somebody. Yes that describe it. Um, and that I was so great too. But but just um, you know growing up. I know I would have I would avoid Speaking. If I couldn't get the first word off. I would just I would just not speak, you know, or I would the the pause it would take for me to get my words together people would just assume I was done or assume that I wasn't responding and this this is something that I experienced now, especially with my new job. I work a lot more directly with folks who who's Spanish is there their first language and and I I want to make an effort to to practice my Spanish, but I I get I get stuck and and you know, it's it's just this added struggle because I you know, I I don't know how I don't even know how to say this stuttered in Spanish or to give that disclaimer. Maybe that would help but you know, it's something that's really frustrating when I when I speak to to Spanish speaking friends or community members and you know, I I fly sometimes it looks like I don't care or I'm not trying you know to to speak Spanish when really I'm like it's it's my stutter and I'm I'm learning to to work with and acknowledge my sister in English. The Spanish is like that that'll come eventually hopefully, you know, yeah

Brenda:

t's a whole other thing right like It's learning a new language is so hard. I And I guess in terms of cancer your question Maya. so I am first generation both of my parents and I was raised to talk in Spanish and I was speaking Spanish at home. English at school even after teachers would tell my parents don't talk to your children in Spanish. You're going to confuse them talk to them in English and my mom's like I don't know how to speak in English. How can I like talk to them? So that's how we were able to speak Spanish but With my experience with stuttering in the latinx. Communities and even like different Generations are so different. as a first gen I remember having a classmate who? Also stuttered and he was first gen as well. and I remember I don't know if it was because we were both first January would speak in Spanish. I remember all of our friends were just you know kind and patient with him. And if we ever saw like maybe a new student like making fun of him like we would be like no. like that's how he talks because I always remember growing up. I would be like new students would say. Oh, you don't speak English correctly, you know you speak with an accent and like my friends would defend me and we would just be like you don't make fun of him like you like we would be we knew what it was and then with moving to Mexico and living in Mexico.

I had another classmate who my last year of high school discovered that he also said it stuttered but It was only when. He said it because I thought he was introvert. But it was because he later shared with us. It was he was self-conscious that he would be made fun of and he just just didn't talk like he preferred to just listen and not communicate with others and before him telling us I always thought he that he was an introvert and he was a good listener and He liked you know math because he was studying to be an engineer. So it's like oh that's when he told when he opened up to us and saying that he had a stutter. It was like, oh, that's why.

You know, you wouldn't have conversations with us. We always thought you were shy or you know that you didn't like us but it's because like Mexicans specifically Mexicans, they like to make fun of you. I can really DJ like if you don't know how to speak correctly in Spanish, they will make fun of you and they like my family.

Not in a hurtful way, but they will make fun of you. I remember they would tell my brother and I oh You still some models? You're like I honestly that's like awful to say like you guys you two are mutes. Like you don't know how to speak. You don't know how to speak in Spanish, even though so our first language. So knowing how we were being treated on speaking Spanish.

I can understand how him as someone who was born and raised in Mexico having a stutter. Would be laughed at would be bullied at right and the way Mexicans like to like joke around. It's very harsh. It's very rough. It's but that's their I don't excuse it. Right but like that's their way for them to like. Oh be part of the like, you know friends and like stuff like that and When he opened up to us about it, we realized oh, of course, of course, you didn't say it because we all know. Someone would have made fun of you. Someone would have like joked the way our classmates joke, but yeah, even I understand DJ like learning a whole new language. It's just like

Yeah, and plus with with stuttering of course, but I wanted to share with you maybe could be helpful stutter in Spanish. It's called tartamudear, so it's like tarta. And then mudear and we I can share like how it's spelled but if anything. I think with sharing that to older Latinos of like I have this I'm learning. older Latinos are like very welcoming like oh you're learning like just telling them that you're learning. It's like they're so kind they're like, oh, okay, and they even like our patient with you. I find because I would tell that to my like, you know people who are older with than me when I was growing up. It's like hey, I'm not perfect in speaking Spanish, but I'm still learning and they would be very patient. So I guess

Hopefully that is hopeful and in a way.

Maya:

You should get that to it on you some somewhere. I'm just kidding. No, but yeah, I've been thinking of getting a tattoo around stuttering. I'm not exactly sure because I've never gotten a tattoo before but but I I want to show something around stuttering because I just feel like it's another tool to help spread awareness about it. Like oh, what is your tattoo mean? Oh, let me tell you. I actually I actually like like the idea because my especially my first Spanish just like something I can Flash me like look says on my hand right here cuz I can't I it would be too much for me to to say like even even just the word. I'm like, oh that's the word that I know how it's just struggles struggle saying, you know, so just a little flash card like hey, give me some space give me some time. Yeah. I actually my first language was Hebrew when I was growing up and so that was my first language and then my parents. Took me to daycare and the teachers were like the same thing. No, no, like it's gonna confuse her like you need to speak to her in English. And so I my parents did a 180 and only spoke to me in English and I lost my Hebrew and so I think it's common to have gotten told that from

You know when? teachers when you were younger and I always think like maybe that had some influence on my stuttering I mean, there's no science behind it yet, but it could be interesting to kind of see like who else amongst others also have experience with

DJ:

You know learning a language at a young age. Yeah, so I I am my oldest is is just turned eight and and so, you know, we're fairly new to being parents of of school age children and one of the things that we did.

Seek was was you know, we got lucky and found a dual immersion program for my daughter. So she can she she goes to school to the first like the first half of the days in Spanish and the second half of the day is in English, but it's funny Brenda would you know kind of to your point, you know to get into it you have to apply to get into the program and one of the things they ask is if Spanish is is the primary language in the home or if it's the first thing which because they won't take you if it's your first language. The school is only for kids who will learn Spanish as a second language, you know, and I just you know that then that's pretty common and dual immersion that dual language programs for for schools, which you know, it is still kind of frustrating. But yeah, so we put her in that school and I've got a my son just turned five and so he's gonna go into the same school same program.

And then I have I have twin daughters that there are three. So yeah quite a few children, you know, and we we do want to raise them speaking Spanish. My my partner, you know makes an effort to speak Spanish to them and to me like speak to me too so I can practice you know, and you know recently I I had this like Renaissance with with my stutter, you know and and have kind of, you know been more open about talking about it even so so with her because I mean that that's a whole another cat, you know topic it is you know, how

How house my Sutter has affected like my view of my masculinity even you know, and and dating and which is again so glad that you've had yes who have talked about that? But yes, so with my my kids, you know, my wife has said, oh has pointed out, you know different instances where you know, either the twins have stuttered or are you my son and and the other thing is that I tried to you know, explain to her is like I stuttering is also, you know a Asia appropriate up into a certain age. I mean, it's just part of of learning to to speak, you know, and but I realize part of me gets really

I don't know. I don't know if defensive is a word but I I don't want them to have a stutter, you know, and and I I know that's something I need to work through, you know, but just because if they don't have to know that struggle, I don't I don't want them to have to know it you know that there's gonna be plenty of other things they can struggle with you know, so my wife had on a couple occasions will be like, oh I you know, do you think you know soon it has a cider my daughter and do you think hobby has this right? I heard him, you know, I noticed he does this and

Like I'm I'm not trying to to look for for it in my kids. I I know that I will do my best to support them if they do have a Setter. Well, you know, you do my best with them period you know, but I I also have started to to worry because I I wonder if my my stutter um, you know, being that it's gotten a lot worse, you know, and now my kids are all getting to the age where they're all talking now and you know, I I do worry that that somehow maybe it'll influence them or or or or they'll get a stutter. You know, my earliest memories of my my stutter is I I used to carpool my freshman year in high school with this kid who's you know, he was my best friend from middle school and he had a stutter I went to middle school with him and he had, you know a pretty severe stutter.

And I would carpool with them and I almost felt like I started to stutter a lot more when I would carpool with him.

And I don't know if that's just I was hyper aware of it or if that's if I actually did start studying more, you know, but that's something that I I think a lot I think about a lot with my own kids is you know, what what impact does my stuttering have have on them?

And I'm working through it

Brenda:

like you were saying how right now with your journey with with stuttering. it has like second guess your masculinity right and then raising children. just it's a lot of factories in young children and raising Chicano children in the US teaching them these two languages. And then you also fearing that they'll have a stutter. And it's a lot to go through it. Right and you're just getting started. It's but if anything I feel like your children have the best parent right to be there like not maybe not guide but like someone on their side to have to understand if they do develop stutter. like They'll know who to go to right and like you'll be able to comfort them or even like. tell them like hey, you're no less of a person and you'll be able to like be able to communicate be able to like do what you want to be who you want when you grow up because you know, you're an example to them. So if anything you would be a great person to have on their side. If they do develop a stutter

Maya:

I think that's a great last word for our listeners. Is there anything else any of you want to add before we close, you know,

DJ:

even even including my myself, I you know through through your podcast. I realized speech therapy is is a resource. I I could look into it. And if I have a you know, my my kids have a Sutter it's something I am now aware of which is silly because silly to me because I you know, therapy was my rule. That's where I I worked and I'm you know, and I experience a lot of the same thing with with my community with mental health and therapy and that sense, you know where it's like it's not talked about in our community and it's it's assumed like that's you know, we don't talk about it because not it's not a thing. It's not it I'm like no everybody has mental health needs, you know, and so yeah, it's definitely something I'm keeping an eye open for for how I can be an advocate. I think the stiff definitely a need

Brenda:

Well, first off think again, thank you Maya friend invitation. I love this conversation DJ like I you're doing amazing work seriously and just super excited on, you know your journey for your you know new job and you're raising, you know, I looked through your Instagram and just love how you share why you've named your children and like the meaning behind it like that is just so powerful like it's beautiful to see Chicanos Latinos raising beautiful inspiring kids who are also chickens in this country. It's just thank you.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me Maya chupkov. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah chukov.

If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode visit us at www.proudstutter.com, and if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast want to leave us a voicemail check out our show notes for the number to call in more importantly tell your friends to listen to until we meet again. Thanks for listening be proud and be you.

Maya:

And that's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chupkov. Our music was composed by a gusto, Denise, and our artwork by Mara zekiel and Noah Chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www dot proud stutter.com. And if you liked the show, you can leave us a review wherever you're listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for that the number to call in more importantly, tell your friends to listen to until we meet again. Thanks for listening. Be proud and be you