Lobbying With A Stutter

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

I'm Maya Chubkov, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it. One conversation at a time Welcome back to Proud Stutter. Today, I am joined by my coworker, Alexandra Leal, our guest co host for today. Alexandra is also the host of democracy is a podcast from the organization we both work at. California common cause, and we're both part of the podcast crew that works on the show together. Alex and I will be interviewing our guest for today, Johnnie Pina. Johnnie is a legislative affairs lobbyist with the League of California Cities and a person who stutters.

Welcome both of you to the show.

Alexandra Leal:

I'm so excited to be here.

Johnnie Pina:

Oh, yeah. I'm super excited to be here as well.

Maya:

One of my favorite things about meeting you, Johnny, is we both kind of work in the same world. We both work on state wide policy. You're a lobbyist and I kind of dabbled in lobbying. Last year. And just to meet someone else who stutters, that's kind of in the same industry and world you are has been so comforting for me. And I guess I was wondering if you feel the same way.

Johnnie:

Yeah. I'm really happy to hear that that you know, I think I think you're right, and that hearing you with the other people are facing similar you know, challenge in a similar situation as you is definitely comforting. You know, I was I was told by you know, a colleague a couple of years ago that, you know, oh, you know, I know a lobbyist just uttered back, you know, at this time, I was like, oh, okay. So there's been other folks that do it, and I'm certain that I'm certain that we're not the only two people that stutter that work in Sacramento politics or in state politics. Right? But hopefully, if there's anybody else that you know, out there who's interested in working in this space, that's the goal, you know, I think in kind of embracing and stepping into the role of a lobbyist to stutters is, hopefully, if anything, I can be kind of I can motivate others, you know, perhaps make it seem a little less frightening to step into this world. Most everyone's been pretty understanding and and you know, accepting of how I speak.

Alex:

That actually leads me to a question that I had thought of. I did I actually did a lot of lobbying in college, and I know that in that space, it's just such a high pressure situation. You have booked a twenty minute slot. Really, you have ten minutes to speak with this person and tell them all about why they need to care about what you care about and, you know, try to get a commitment if you can. And it creates like a lot of pressure to get your ideas out in a way where you feel confident and you want the person to think that you know what you're talking about. And so I wonder, like, especially at the beginning of your career when you were getting into this work. Did that ever was that a challenge in the beginning? Was it something that you felt like got easier with time. I would just love to know your thoughts on that.

Johnnie:

Yeah. Definitely always trying to fight for people's time and getting them to hear you. Right? And so when you feel like, you know, you know, when you stutter oftentimes you can't say, right, as maybe as many words in that short time slot as you were hoping. Too. But, you know, so far, like I said, yeah, it's it's been it's been pretty positive. Perhaps it's been a little bit different over Zoom as well. Definitely the COVID and how the the legislature has kind of had to change has changed the way that we have to advocate people don't always take in person twenty minute time slots or those ten minute time slots. It's now over over Zoom that, you know, can change that dynamic a bit. I've been a lobbyist just since the beginning of this year. Officially. Before that, I was a legislative policy analyst so far. Is that so good? You know?

Alex:

But it's I think I think what you spoke to is a challenge. I'm trying to get you get that elevator pitched down. It's always something I'm trying to work on. Yeah. It it almost seems just like in these spaces. People just like don't think about it. They just assume, like, everybody can do it. And even, like, as someone who doesn't stutter, like, I struggled a lot with it. I had to, like, coach myself in the elevator and be like, look at this, this, this, these keywords over and over and over to try to get it right. And so I feel like even from an accessibility standpoint, like, these offices and they're just not designed to think about that, which is really unfortunate because I feel like Thankfully, Johnny, you're having like a super you're doing super well for yourself, but I can see how it would deter somebody from the field. Of being, like, oh my gosh. I don't wanna do this. That's a lot of pressure. And so when we need those voices in the room.

Johnnie:

Yeah. You know, I mean, as I kind of had the opportunity to observe the and and work with a lot of lobbyists on our team. I kinda got to see how they all worked and what it it really looked like to be a obvious day in, day out. And, you know, as an as an analyst kind of helping them out, I I felt like I I felt like I I got that part down pretty good. And then kind of saw this, you know, the public speaking side as the ultimate hurdle. I was like, man, if I could if I could, you know, face my fears on that one, I feel like I could do a good job. And but that it wasn't, you know, you speak, it could be intimidating. It wasn't intimidating for me. It's still I mean, it's not like I'm I don't get fearful of of speaking now. It's it's still definitely a challenge. But, you know, it's one that I've kind of I have faced, but I was certainly, you know, kind of that ultimate kind of top of the mountain that I didn't think I'd be able to to get to, you know,

Maya:

All the things you just mentioned about being fearful of public speaking, and order, and having this of pressure to speak publicly in order to do your job the best you can, like, totally resonates with me, and I still get those nerves and fears about my stutter when I do have to similarly testify or, you know, try to convince a legislator to support our bill, all those things, totally relatable. Can you tell us about a recent experience? I remember you telling me about it. Before about when you first kinda had to do these big public speaking things work and how that went for you.

Johnnie:

Just kinda how it worked out was was was was pretty cool. That same week that that I saw I as post about her work in San Francisco and the resolution for the stuttering awareness week was the same week that I had to provide my first Lee testimony in the capital. So it was on a sponsored bill of ours, had to get up in front of everybody, I'm in person and give my two minute spiel on this bill. And, you know, like I said, kind of going into that, I definitely think to to my community of Stutterers and kind of kind of imagine what their take on on this would be and kind of their, you know, what that collected stuttering community, you know, would have a backup there. So is definitely helpful in that. And then, you know, just that following week, I had to address our board of directors for the first time in person. As well on a different topic. And that happened to fall on on national stuttering awareness week as well because it was the week after. That. And, you know, I brought that up during my presentation actually that you know, this was my first time addressing this board on national stuttering awareness week. And, you know, to my surprise, it was actually met with the round of applause. And It was it was it was really really cool. You know, it was my first time talking to our, you know, our our board about this ever, and I've been around the organization for some time now. And, you know, it was just kind of really cool to see kind of your vulnerability and kind of being open payoff. And I think a lot of people appreciated things that I did that. There were a few people afterwards that, you know, talk to me about it and Yeah. I was a really great feeling and experience. And I couldn't have done that if I hadn't founded this community of folks.

Maya:

I love that story. It makes my heart so happy, and it really shows the power of community and how that can help build our confidence as people who stutter because by seeing others doing things that you may have been afraid of as a person who stutters, I think can really just help us in our everyday life. So thanks so much for for sharing that. A related story that I've kind of talked about a little before is passing the San Francisco resolution recognizing international stuttering awareness week the second week of May last year. That was a huge community building tool because we got a lot of press coverage from passing that. And that led to a lot of San Francisco's San Francisco's reading about Proud Stutter and reaching out and saying they wanted to join the community. And now we're about to start an in person San Francisco group here. And so so much can spiral from passing these local resolutions and the public speaking component of being up on a podium and speaking publicly with your peers in your community is just it's it was the one of the best feelings I've ever had.

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So passing a local resolution can seem really daunting to a lot of people and Yes, it does require some amount of work, but it really is an easy process once you have a team working together, like in San Francisco, it wasn't just me, it was me and others. And if this is something you really wanna do, there are resources out there to help.

Johnnie:

Yeah. And there's people that understand the process, like I knew that would be willing to and coach them through. You know, there's there's four hundred and eighty two cities in in California. And making it as easy as possible for those cities that are interested or those advocates in those cities that are interested in putting something putting a a resolution like that for on the local level. Is that something I'd encourage picking it as easy as possible for those to put forward a similar resolution.

Alex:

You know Maya. She's always the trendsetter. But I think yeah. I think you bring a really good point, Johnny, about doing that local level change and how impactful that can actually be. I think in general when it comes to, like, actually creating sustainable change that affects people in a real way, we tend to think of it as, like, national statewide, that's the only way to make a difference. And really, like, these local level changes, like getting other cities to recognize national stuttering awareness week, that does create an impact. It creates a very local impact because there are, you know, tons of people who's stuttering. And tons of people who, like you two have mentioned, have tried to suppress it or deny it. Or feel embarrassed about it and to see your local city, not only recognize it but celebrate it, that's going that that would encourage, you know, a kid in middle school who's going through speech therapy and is like just like I just wanna not have this or a kid in you know, high school who is like trying to navigate the world and to not only be able to see, like, wow my city cares, but also then, like, it opens the door to start googling and being like, wow, there's an association. Wow, there's this podcast. There's this lobbyist. There's all these people who are doing exactly what I wanna do. With a stutter and it's not stopping them. In fact, it's like encouraging them to continue going forward, those local changes really do make a huge difference. So I think you're totally right about that jolly. Like, if more cities even just congesting California recognized it, that would be pretty incredible.

Johnnie:

Yeah. I think you nailed it. I know there's lots and lots of city officials out there that want to focus on diversity and what I think I think amplifying, you know, disfluency and visibility in general is definitely a part of that diversity. And I think raising awareness of stuttering is is it's that bill. Exactly. And I think you're spot on with with, you know, his unawareness, you know, might seem like right. You know, passing these resolutions don't actually change any type of law. But I think the simple awareness, you spoke to it, you know, spot on. I think it really does make people that do have a stutter feel more at ease with themselves. And gosh, if I would have a bit more engaged with my studying community at a younger age, like in high school or something. I would've I think it it would've been great. You know, I I appreciate the the the a struggle that it's been. But, man, I think having that community and that kind of acknowledgement that, man, like, my city counselors, like, if I even, you know, acknowledged my community, like, kind of just kind of kind of being aware that you know, these local officials understand, you know, what sattering is. They you know, it's kinda just popped up in my head to, I'm sure there's lots of people that may be interested in providing public comment at the local level as well. That stutter that might be intimidated to go up there or or, you know, whether it's in person or or Zoom or or however that that cities are doing their public comment. I think if I mean, speaking for myself, if I knew the acidity council had just passed a resolution talking about national stuttering awareness week, I I would feel much more at ease that you know, if I start talking and start stuttering, they'll know what I'm doing and they will be more kind of of understanding as I provide comment. So, yeah, definitely something I'm interested in. Promoting Yeah.

Maya:

One of the cool things that happened during during the So we did the the press kind of friend slash rally before the introduction at the board of supervisors the week after when it passed during public comments, there was one person there that always speaks at you know, one one of those regulars. And they said that they had a stutter and that if it made them feel really good that this was being recognized. So, like, someone that I have known for quite some time, I didn't know that they identified with that. And so it's just there's so many ripple effects that can happen of helping people come out of the shadows and, like, claim their identities as a person who strutters and even as someone with a disability, like, in hindsight, I just I think about all the times where I was singled out and I was kind of pushed to the side or wasn't taken seriously in a lot of ways. And so claiming that identity feels really good. Yeah. I I like what you said. I'm claiming the identity feels really good. I think that's that can be like the title much of the epic of this episode or something because it's a that's spot on. Yeah. It's just kind of kind of, like, accepting that that that title and owning it. I mean, having that that that attitude has has helped me a lot. Yeah.

Alex:

I I recently heard something that I think kinda goes with what Mai was talking about. I I don't remember where I read it because I read too many words a day. But somebody had written that people need to recognize that their burden is just their blessing that they haven't realized yet. And so, I mean, when you all talk about your settling, it seems like so many people, society, and, you know, even linguistic professionals are telling you, like, this is a burden, this is something you need to fix. This is something that your life would be better without. This is an inconvenience to you and to others and blah blah blah. And I mean, look how just with you all getting in touch with your communities and then getting in touch with your identities, like, maya, you have this incredible platform form now that you're using to raise awareness and to bring it to the forefront of people's minds. And like, Johnny, like whether or not you recognize it, you are opening doors for, you know, stutters who want people who with a stutter who want to be a lobbyist. And so even though somebody has told you for so long, like, this is a burden in a way, like, it's your blessing to do with. It's your blessing to smash down walls with and open new doors with. And I love that you all are carrying it with such, like, pride and dignity and the respect that it deserves, like, regardless, you know, if you don't have a surgery do it, etcetera, like, it's just pretty incredible what you all are doing and it's an honor to, like, be here with you all, talk getting to talk about it.

Maya:

Thanks for being such a wonderful ally, Alex. So switching gears a little bit, Johnny, I wanna kinda go into your stutter a little bit more. We've been talking a lot about your career and lobbying and public speaking. Can we go a little bit back in time and or maybe not back in time. But can you just talk about maybe, let's say, the best thing you like about your stutter and the least thing you like about your stutter

Johnnie:

You know, I guess for a for a pretty long time, I didn't really have a favorite part of it. I just I've always kind of viewed it as something I have not liked very much. And but as of recently, you know, a question that has really gotten me thinking is would I you know, if I could choose to not have it, or could I have it? And I guess, I, ultimately, I I would choose to to keep my stutter. And that's because I think it, you know, makes me make me who I am, has led me to meet some really cool people. And I think I'll continue to meet some really great folks after the stuttering. Community for for my least favorite part, I guess. I I try not to think of it. In a negative, like, any more as best I can. I can definitely in my view being being an inconvenience at times. It's if I'm just just trying to be quick and and get something said, obviously, you know, sometimes you gotta think about it a little bit more than you'd like to.

Maya:

Thank you for that. Yeah. And I can totally relate to both of those things. I think my favorite part is definitely, this community, there's a lot of awesome people out there who stutter. So I feel very lucky to be bonded with you, Johnny, through that. Yeah. Same here.

Alex:

I love what you mentioned Johnny about you've come to a place where even if you had the choice to not have a stutter, it's kind of a part of accepted that it's a part of who you are and a part of your identity, and instead of it being a negative thing, which I'm sure many people have try to tell you is a negative thing. It's a positive thing because it's part of who you are. It's what makes you you. So I think that's so cool that you're just at a point where you're like, yeah, this isn't gonna change and even if it was gonna change. It's part of the reason why you are who you are now. Sitting is pretty cool. Yeah. Certainly a new kind of well, a newer perspective, but definitely haven't always thought that way. But definitely a good alternative to trying to suppress it and, you know, being embarrassed by it.

Maya:

So you mentioned that this the shift in perspective around your stutter is is kind of new. Can you talk about that shift and maybe an experience that led you to that shift?

Johnnie:

So I have had it stuttered for from what I'm told as long as I could speak and was in speech therapy basically throughout elementary school into middle school, didn't do it much in high school, and then did it in college, as well. So it's kind of always been something that I've struggled with and have been trying to learn strategies to optimize stuttering and increase fluency as much as possible. So I've always kind of had it in the from the perspective of of something trying to trying to keep to a minimum. And, you know, I guess, at the time, speech therapy wasn't really promoting kind of acceptance as as much because that's never really something I've heard of until I've I've recently found that that the stuttering community in the past couple of years. I picked up Nina G’s book, the comedian and stuttering advocate who's been on your your part Cast picked up her book and turned out that she was doing a standup show at brewery in Pytham. And, you know, my first thought was, oh, you know, I'm a fan. I'd love to go. And, you know, I invited my wife. You know, I didn't I said, hey. Would you like to go? And she said, sure. And then she's like, oh, well, do you wanna in my my parents and our friend, I'm sure they'd love to go see a stand up show at at a brewery. You know, in town sounds like a good time. And, you know, I kind of played it off like, no. No. It's okay. Not not written let's not invite them. And, you know, my wife asked me after how come you didn't want to invite, you know, our friends and family to to the show. And I think that they would have enjoyed it.

And, you know, I kinda had to come to I it kind of all came to it came to a head in in my mind and, like, you know, I think I'm I think I was you know, afraid or embarrassed to to have the conversation that would ultimately come out of that. And, you know, because Interx, she definitely brings her standards to the forefront of the conversation. And I think that's something I was uncomfortable with. I think I liked it on a personal level because I could relate to it. But but at the time, it's just not something I was ready to have a conversation with with my friends and family. So, you know, my wife kind of brought it up called me out a little bit and it was like, you know, if you'd like to talk about this more, then you should talk to your families. You know what? I wanna be an advocate on this kind of stuff. And I, you know, first step is to be able to talk to my close friends and family and, you know, with that kind of started the change in my thinking and that was kind of the big first step was kind of kind of acknowledging that I was embarrassed of it and and wasn't ready to to really discuss how it impacted my life to even those that that are close to me. And how did that experience impact you? Definitely makes me more confident in going into all of the different just life situations that you have to speak at, and also especially in my occupation as a lobbyist. I definitely have to speak quite often. So I definitely think about those that I've met in the stuttering community and kind of their perspective on stuttering almost every time I have to do any type of public speaking. Howard Bauchner:

Maya:

I also feel like the more public speaking do the more comfortable you get with it. That's definitely how I've felt also about podcasting. With every episode, I just get more comfortable being on the mic. And so, yeah, speaking of a podcast, so not sure if you guys know, but in addition to hosting and producing and doing all the things for CrowdStutter, I also work on my organization's podcast with Alex here, California's common causes podcast, democracy is. Alex, do you wanna tell our listeners a little bit about our work podcast?

Alex:

Yeah. Let me just pull out my elevator pitch. So democracy is is a podcast centered around democracy issues, specifically in California. And when we were thinking about this podcast, it really was a way to reach a couple of communities. We wanted to reach young people. Young people who are getting involved, who are interested in democracy work, who wanna understand what's going on, and who want a platform that they can trust for information. And we also wanted to reach just Californians in general who are concerned about their state, who are concerned about their communities and their families and also want to know what is going on. Because so many of these conversations when it comes to, like, registering a money in politics, the people in power thrive off of making you feel like you're in the dark and you should stay there. So the point of democracy is is to have conversations around democracy issues and to educate folks on, like, what's going on? Why is it going on? How did we get here? Provide solutions on how we can move forward and offer hope that even when it seems dark out, there's always light in our democracy. There's always a path forward. And that you can have an active role in making that happen. So that is kind of our goal at the podcast and it's been so much fun already.

The audience didn't hear, but I referred to Maya I referred to Maya earlier as the senior broadcaster. I feel like she's my guru of, like, all podcasting knowledge. And I feel like a junior podcaster. And it's been a really incredible experience. So y'all should stream. Democracy is on all platforms. We are available everywhere.

Maya:

Yes. It's a great educational and advocacy tool and it's just a fun listen too because you get to to hear Alex talk for, like, a big chunk of time and that's always lovely. You have a great podcast voice. Things. You know, my my nickname as a child was the broken radio. So -- Yeah. -- glad I now happened, I went for it. Love that for you, Alex. So before we end today's episode, I I wanted to talk about something related to like everything we've been discussing so far on this episode around advocacy and how our listeners can get involved So we have a resource on proudstetter dot com. It's a local resolutions tool kit that takes you through the steps of how to pass a local resolution or pro proclamation in your own city. So definitely check that out. On proudstetter dot com. It's also gonna be in our show notes. Johnny and I will also be working on getting something passed in California, that would recognize a stuttering holiday. So let us know if you'd like to get plugged in on that as well. And then the last thing is we're gonna be doing a how to pass a local resolution webinar with with Johnny and a few others that have passed resolutions in their own cities. So stay tuned for that. You can find all of our events at proudstutter.com/events. And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter.

This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya Chukov. Our music was composed by Augusta Denise. And our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chubka. If you have an idea or wanna be part of a future episode, visit us at w w w dot proudstutter dot com. And if you like the show, you can leave a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Wanna leave us a voice mail, check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen to. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.