Stuttering As An Entrepreneur Pt. 2: Building Resilience and Celebrating Uniqueness

Transcript

Maya Chupkov:

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned your stutter again, because I'm just so curious about just exploring more about your relationship with your stutter. And so I guess the first question I had around your stutter is, how open are you about your stutter in the multiple spaces, whether it's family or with your colleagues?

Calvin Williams, Jr:

So I think that I have become open, very open with it, because I've realized that there's nothing I can do to stop it from being private. I mean, when I talk, it can come out. So at any time, it can come out. It can come out if I'm on CNBC, if I'm talking to my mom. It can happen at any given time. And so I have become far more open about it. And as those who have stuttered know that your throat can get tight, and then that's kind of like one of the initial triggers where the stutter can come on. I just felt it now as I talk about it. We just had a talk with my family, my mom, dad, just yesterday about the stutter and speech and things like that. So I think that by being open, it actually makes it more easy to get through it. Now, there's still that bit of a cringe moment whenever it comes up, and those who start to know what I'm talking about, like, you don't want someone to look down on you or to think less of you or anything like that. But I've just found that being open about it has made it better for everyone and that I'll do an interview and then I'll talk with my team, be like, oh, man, I stuttered four times on this thing and they go, we didn't even notice it. And I think that because we're in our hedge, we know it's something that we have dealt with or dealing with, that when you're open and people are like, I didn't even really notice it,it actually makes it easier to continue to work on it in a positive way.

Maya:

Totally. I can totally relate to that.

Roy:

Yeah. So Calvin, when it comes to dealing with that as well, and it's especially, and I'll talk a little bit about within the black community as well, because like I said, I have other disabilities. I have a mentee who has several chronic illnesses as well. She actually has the Better Not Bitter podcast in our community, especially in the African-American community, disabilities in general, but especially like speech impediments and things of that nature aren't normally discussed in a very open forum. On one side of our kind of mutual journey in college that I don't think I've ever got to ask you about and after talking to my mentee about how she had to self advocate at college, like how did you or what is your advice as well, especially for people who are coming into college, maybe into spaces that aren't significantly accommodating or even know how to respond to the acknowledgement that like, this is a disability that sometimes requires some adaptation from an accessibility perspective. But how did you navigate that in college? Because like I said, I didn't really notice that you had a stutter because you didn't speak much. And it's like passing in the hallway, right? But I did start noticing.

Calvin Williams:

I could say sup, we're really good. Yeah, right?

Roy:

We're guys in the dorm room, we kind of nod and keep moving, right? But it did when I, and when you started speaking publicly, I would see it. And I was like, oh, like I see that he has a, that he has a, but I don't even think in my mind at the time, like at 19 or 20, right, was that I even thought it was a stutter. So right, like even that lack of knowledge of like the speech, the speech pathology of stuttering that a lot of people aren't aware of, just that awareness and advocacy, like how did you navigate that? Because I know, like I said, when it comes to disabilities or anything like that, there were, we're not very knowledgeable or informed across the boardin a lot of predominantly Black spaces.

Calvin:

So you know what is so crazy is I never thought that it was a disability until you just said it. I mean, and I had been in speech therapy since middle school, you know, off and on. And so that might be one reason why, because I didn't view it as a disability. Like I just thought it was just like a challenge, a thing that I just had to deal with when I got stressed or when I talked too fast. Yeah. So it's, so it is interesting that even in my own family, like, and they might've consciously labeled it that way. I'll have to ask them. But when I came to a school, well, one thing that I have always tried to do is work on myself and work on whatever my gift is. And because I knew that I wasn't going to play basketball, I was like, I am going to be like a professional student and do the best that I can. So I'm actually thankful that a friend that we both know from A&T, she got me into a speech therapist because she was studying speech therapy at A&T. And that was the first time that I, I got help on my own as an adult. And then I just, I just fixed in my mind, I was like, I am going to be so good at what I do that this stutter is not going to stop. And that even if it comes up, they're going to be like, well, you know what? He's so good at this other stuff. So I'll let it ride. And so that's probably why as SGA president, I just plowed forward. And that is basically what I've done. I've always just plowed forward. I've had, even on TV, one of those really bad stuttering moments where like your face kind of locks up a little bit and like you feel horrible, but I just, I'm like, that's it. I'm just going to plow through. And so I think that that is kind of my mentality that no matter what, I'm not going to let this stop me. And then on the sidelines, I'm going to work on it. That's why I'm in this app. Why I would see a speech therapist even during COVID through Zoom, I would do whatever I had to do to get this thing going.

Roy:

Yeah. And that's awesome. And even again, and I talked to my mentee about this, I don't like the term disability in general. So I'm like, a lot of times we think about disabilities as something that's minimizing or reductionist. And like you said, Calvin, you know how many things that I do. So I'm like, I'm clearly capable and able of doing a lot. So I don't really consider myself to be disabled either, but when it, you know, just from a societal perspective and classifications, right? Because like I'm a disabled veteran, right? Like I have a handicap license plate on my vehicle. Like, and when I get out the vehicle, people are always looking at me like, like, you're not handicapped, but it's that it's the ableism and kind of the normalism aspect of it. But to the point to where, you know, and even not to classify it as condition, like a disability, but it's a condition that that requires a different level of support. So I, you know, I even recognize and applaud your parents and for even communicating with you about it. Because like I said, in a lot of spaces, it's yeah, like you chose to plow through it. But a lot of people don't have any other kind of advocacy, right? They don't know what it's called. They don't really understand it. And so they're just trying to, they're just trying to force through without understanding some of the like pathology behind it. And even you're describing like the, you know, some of the biological physiological responses that play into the stutter, right? That some people may listen to this, that listen to my and be like, man, I have that too. And not even realizing it's a, it's physiologically tied to the stutter as well. So, but yeah, I think that was a great point to share. And I mean, and that's perseverance for all of us, right? In any space. It's just, we've got to commit to ourselves to do.

Calvin:

But I think for me, and I think it's the same thing for you, Calvin, like I have enough energy and I have the ability to do what God made me to do. And I don't like, and what I feel called and purpose to do. So the other things that I can't do that other people do, I don't really care because I don't like, I don't feel like it's a part of what I'm here for. Right? I think we're all uniquely and wonderfully made. So like, I may not need to be as fast as you, I may not need to be as strong as you. I may not write. I may not need to have the same proclivities that you do because collectively we should be benefiting humanity. I don't need to do everything. I just need to do what I was made for. And I have, you know, and I, and like you said, as long as I focus and, and stick to it, I think you can accomplish that regardless of, of any condition that could be, that could be perceived as a limitation, right? It just means we have to do something differently. It doesn't mean we can't do it at all.And there's one quick point that I want to make that follows up with what you just said there. I think that the biggest thing that we have to do is not compare ourselves to someone else. That's the biggest thing that comparing is going to rob it and make you feel like whatever I compare myself to what I did yesterday. And yes, I see people out with, yo, I want to be like them, but like I cannot do a comparison of all. He, you know, we're the same age. He's at this level. I'm at this level that robs and demotivates. And so I work very hard at not comparing because it's going to slow me down and throw off my whole momentum when I think like that.

Maya:

I agree. Yeah. Roy, I think it was you that mentioned the power of language and having the language to just help you describe your experience. And I think that's definitely something around stuttering that is lacking a lot because stuttering, like that's one of the only terms, but there's also like different forms of stuttering. Like, like Calvin and I, we have more of a covert stutter and a lot of people who stutter don't even know that covert stuttering is a thing. And as soon as they learn it, they kind of breathe a sigh of relief that there's actually something out there that is a description of what they've been through this whole, their whole lives. And there's a community around it. And so I'm just, I just wanted to kind of echo that, that I just, I really, as as someone that is a stuttering advocate, I'm trying to always find new and empowering language so that people can feel more comfortable in their stuttering experience. For, you know, other entrepreneurs out there that might be aspiring to be an entrepreneur who also have a stutter, what would you say to them? And because as an entrepreneur, you definitely have to talk a lot and, you know, gather a lot of supporters around you. And so do you have any advice for aspiring entrepreneurs?

Calvin:

Yes. And this is for anyone who stutters as well. For me, something went off in my mind when I could rap a whole song and not stutter. And I don't know if that happens to you as well, but for me, singing or rapping, there's no stutter. It's only in conversation. And so that told me like, okay, one, there is a level of familiarity that I have to have with the content that I am saying. And then, and then, and then two, can I say it in not like a melodic way, but where my, where my voice is going up and down to where I'm moving like it's a song. And so when I present, I often think about the flow of the presentation. When am I going to go high, go low and kind of move with it? When it's engaging to, it just helps me talk. But it really showed me because I can remember this is in the 90s and like Bone Thugs and Harmony was out and like they had a song that was super fast rapic. It was Bone Thugs and Biggie. And I could do the whole song without stuttering at all. I was like, why can I do that? But I can't do that. And then that's, that is when I, that's when I realized, okay, one, I need to get so familiar with the content where I know it back and forwards. And then I say it with ease. And two, I'm going to talk with like a melody or a rhythm because it lets me get my breath control in as those that sort of know if we have to manage breath control, at least covertly, have the man's breath control, how we move our lips and tongues and do all of those things. And singing and rapping, you do it in that time. So I just try and replicate that whenever I do a presentation at the minimum with the rhythm of how I talk and really knowing the content. And then you go forward from there.

Roy:

I think that's awesome. And just to add to that real quick, and I know Calvin knows, I don't know if Maya knows that. So I've been a rapper for over 20 years, but interestingly enough, I did not public speak before rapping. So I was kind of pushed into public speaking, performing from a hip hop perspective. And then even get into the point to where you can battle rap or freestyle. It actually prepared me to be like a podcaster, to be able to respond to an audience. But there is something about the familiarity of like words that you know, and you memorize, and then kind of creating, you know, kind of like a melody to it. So I think that, you know, because Calvin talks about that Bone Thugs and Biggie song, like that song was hard for me to recite. That song was difficult for anyone who liked hip hop. It was like, you know, for the younger generations, that's like a real fast, like Eminem song that you try to memorize. But it was that thing, like everybody tried to memorize. It was like at the bus stop, or like you tried to rap as fast as Bone. And it was like, and in my mind, I would do that stuff, but I was extremely, I'm still an introvert, but I did not like speaking in public. And I didn't really do it until I was probably 18 or 19 years old. So the irony of me pushing Calvin to go run for public office when I'm somebody who doesn't often speak in public was more because I didn't want to do it. So I'm glad that he volunteered because people were asking me to do it. I'm like, no, I'm not doing it. I don't speak in public, but you know, now I'm the one with the podcast. So you see how God works things out.Amen. Amen.

Maya:

All right. So we're going to close up, but any last minute thoughts before we say goodbye?

Calvin:

I would just say that, one, kudos to you on creating a platform because stuttering can feel especially lonely. It's not one of those things where everyone around you is doing it. And so I went through life being one of the only people that I knew that was stuttering. And so thank you for creating this space to where we can come and be proud of who we are, regardless of what's going on. That's first and foremost. Second, I would just say that, you know, and this could just be what my mom said, just to make me feel better. But she would always say that, you know, this is just proof that your mind is working that much faster. And so I saw it more like a superpower. And I just hope that everyone can just take it from like, our minds are moving at a clip that isn't faster than normal. So we have to slow it down for everyone else. But, you know, let's do the work to let our purpose that God has created in all of us come out because it's going to benefit the whole world so much more.

Roy:

That's awesome. Totally agree. And Maya, yeah, I would just add to that as well, just celebrating you for, right, there's a lot of topics that people can choose to speak on. And I think just having, you know, the honesty and creating a niche and a place for people who struggle with stuttering. And then also, and I love what you're doing in the second season and bringing in co-hosts, right, to learn even that the patience and just being able to experience it as well. But I just recognize and want to applaud you for creating the space and then highlighting it. Congratulations on the nonprofit. I know what it's like to run one. I've had two of them over the years. So they're fun and stressful. Unlike Calvin, I hate trying to raise money. So I normally just wind up paying for everything myself. And that's not very good when you run a nonprofit. But yeah, but I applaud you on that as well. And not only seeing just the opportunity for the conversation, but I'm sure probably using a nonprofit to branch out with more advocacy and information and just creating spaces where people can learn more and be received as well. So I just applaud you in that and just wish you the best in that endeavor as well, because I know there'll be a lot more coming from you on in the nonprofit world and when it comes to advocacy as well. So thank you.

Maya:

Thank you both. And I will definitely be hitting you both up around advocacy stuff, especially I wanted to do stuff in North Carolina. I think there's a lot of potential there. And so this is not goodbye, but see you later. Thank you. Thank you so much.