Stuttering As A Dog Trainer

Transcript

Steven Tallas:

I've listened to to to other podcasts for other episodes for from you and I was definitely inspired so much that that I put props that are on my on my website now. So it's it's a dog behavior is like it says I K9 Behavior consultant a dog fitness trainer and proud stutter.

Maya Chupkov:

I’m Maya chubkov and I'm a woman who stutters welcome to Proud stutter a Show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it one conversation at a time.

Before we get into our interview with Steven and Jay. I have an exciting announcement to share with you. All proud stutter has won a signal award. This is a huge deal. The signal award recognizes the best in podcasts and I am just so thrilled about this award so we can officially say that proud stutter is an award-winning podcast second announcement is we have our big proud stutter gala happening on Thursday December 7th at peacock Lounge in San Francisco. You can buy your tickets now at proudstutter.com/gala.

We're going to have comedy from Nina G. The Bay Area is only female stuttering comedian. We also are going to have a silent auction including a signed baseball by proud Studdard George Springer of the Blue Jays and we're gonna have live music and much more. You don't want to miss this event buy your tickets at proudstutter.com/gala. See you there. All right now, let's get to our interview with Jay and Steven.

Welcome back to Proud stutter today. I am joined by Steven Tallis a person who stutters and a professional dog behavior consultant and fitness trainer for dogs joining us as our guest co-host is Jay Feinstein senior podcast Producer at WBUR welcome both view to the show.

Steven:

Yes. Thank you.

Jay Feinstein:

Thank you glad to be here.

Maya:

Stephen you are our distinguished guest so I'm going to start with you. You are a dog trainer, which I'm imagining you have to talk to a lot of people like all the time and either in person over Zoom. Like how does a stutter become a dog trainer? Like how like, how how did you become a dog? Trainer how I became a dog trainer.

Steven:

That's that's a that's a story in itself. Yeah, for sure. So I I initially went to to school for for journalism and I realized that wasn't for me and I wanted to do something I loved and was passionate about and I was very lost whenever I dropped out of college.

So I I did that getting into network marketing at the time and and the what what what I really got from that was the ability to to just start my own business and run with it. And so I was like I want to do something revolving around dogs, where where where I can just just love my own life and and enjoy my experiences. So so I initially got into dog sitting at First and Yeah, I got into into into the settings that the large setting. aspect of things and I I remember like I wanted to do more with with dog behavior at the time so I did the

I ended up Googling the best dog training in Houston because that's where I'm from. So I I Googled her she the woman a woman that popped up and I I emailed her and I said, hey, do you want to go out for coffee and talk about dogs? And she was like absolutely as a sign me up and from there. We talked hours about coffee and dogs and I look over sorry books and and she didn't take me under her Wing. We we got into some shelter word. And then from there I started to to just become more knowledgeable by by putting myself to Cain in school, which I find that interesting that I dropped out of college to get into canine in school. And and yeah, I've been I've been developing myself Often and a dog industry ever since

Maya:

I love that like I feel I I absolutely love dogs. And so when you messaged me and shared your story, I was like, this is a match made in heaven like a starter who loves dogs and works with dogs all the time. So, oh my gosh, I

Yeah, and I'm also the thinking like my dog is a rescue dog. We got him during covid and he definitely needs a lot of behavior help so.

Um, but we just it's it's a commitment. It's a big time. commitment and we started doing it in the beginning of the pandemic and then life happened and but I think we've done a pretty good job with him there that he he just tends to like bark a lot when people come. When he hears, like people come in the the stairway like he's a very big guard dog. So that can be hard to kind of get out of. A dog. I'm guessing my dogs like that too. But like a very small guard dog instead because he's only 15 pounds.

Steven:

Well, you know like Ed during the praying day make we were socializing our dogs either, you know very much. So so we so we have a good year two years of of under socialized dogs. And and yeah, they they become party to to new people all the time. So so these people are people should they they've never seen before you know, so so we get a lot of a lot of party puppies these days because they're because they were they're very much like socialization.

Maya:

Yeah. So, can you talk more about you said that you first started? pursuing journalism before you became in the dog world. Can you talk more about why journalism, and what was it like kind of going through school. Did your stutter ever have an impact on your Decision to change careers

Steven:

ooking back. My stutter didn't impact my dream. That it impacted me in a moment. And and that's and that's the thing is that it's still impacts my moments day by day talking, you know to each person but but I was always living within my dream and I was like, I'm gonna do things the way I want to do it despite. How I say it. You know, so so well whenever I was going to high school I got I got really into. Into the journal about the journalism aspect of writing so I got into sports journalism at the time. So I got to interview, you know High School football coaches basketball coaches, and you know, I got to write about them and just bash them sometimes um, you know, but a lot of it was me going to interview these these people, you know, and they could be having a good game or a bad game and I'm running up to them. I'm trying to to get their attention and and sit them down for for a whole interview with me and A lot of times I would I would start her through the entire interview and you know, like it was a lot of me getting in my head about that like like okay this this this this football coach has just lost as lost as big game and here I am trying to interview him with with the stutter I can only imagine how how would like what what he's thinking?

You know, so it was definitely a journey for me, but it was fun at the end of the day and I don't think it and really impacted my experience overall just impacted to me just in the moment.

Jay:

Yeah. I mean I've done my fair share of Journalism and even without a stutter going out and talking to new people like that. It really puts you and outside your comfort zone. No matter what so level that up to any sort of barrier to that. I can I can just begin to imagine how you're feeling.

Steven:

He was just a bit intimidating it but I I would do it all over again. I enjoyed it.

Maya:

Can you talk more about some of those moments you you've had in how you kind of coped with your stutter growing up and some of the struggles you had as well growing up.

Steven:

I don't know when the starter developed. I just remember moments of my parents telling me to slow down, you know, speak normal stuff like that and I don't think people even in school understood a lot of it and I think like there was some there was some Kind of some type of slurry developing as well at the time because I remember people saying yeah, you you stutter any and you're also slurry your words and I was like, okay, that's that's good to know. But you know, so so it impacted Me growing up in in a sense of like Like I wanted to to speak like everyone else and a lot of times. I I couldn't control when I stuttered. So I would have good days. I'd have bad days, you know and have good moments and bad moments, and I talked to people I talked to friends normally and a nice day. I'm talking to them with the stutter. So it's it's just something that that ultimately I can't control. that's that's that's the biggest thing growing up and wondering what why I oh well wondering why I talk the way I do. There was a it was it was it was just it was just I don't know. It was just a question. I've always asked myself. I I tell the story a lot to people whenever I'm trying to explain what what is like For me to talk with the stutter and I and I talk about like walking on a trail. So I'm walking down at down this Trail.

It's a beautiful a beautiful hike and I see this bridge and it's a bridge to the other side. It's it's like the shortcut to the other side and I'm well I'm walking towards it and all of a sudden it it goes in flames. It's on fire and I'm like, okay, I can't take that bridge anymore. So now I gotta go go go go a huge alternate route. That's that's gonna take me forever, but I do it, you know just because I don't want to walk that bridge.

So so a lot of times when we're speaking I'm speaking in that sense of like I know these words that that I'm about to say are are the words that I'm going to stutter. And I can say something else that that makes you that makes me sound clearer and that's exhausting and even today whenever I get home. I'm exhausted from speaking to people.

Maya:

Wow. I totally resonate with everything. You just said, I've actually never heard a stutter described in that way. So Thanks for sharing that I always love hearing how the people did describe their stutter through like different the visuals and and stories. And your point about like getting exhausted at the end of the day when you're like speaking a lot. Like I totally really because you're just like you're brain is always on and you always have to like kind of think on your feet like every moment you're speaking. Um, so so yeah. I always notice I'm like, oh, why am I so tired? I'm like, oh, yeah. I had like seven meetings where I had to talk. Okay?

Steven:

Yes, that's it. And I just so happened to pick a career that that I talk to people all day.

Jay:

It also one where you have to talk to animals and They're talking to animals is probably different. They probably don't notice the stutter in the same way, maybe Communications different. I know with my dog. He respond way better to hand signals when we were training him then anything that I said with my own voice for sure.

Steven:

Yeah, dogs are more motion oriented, you know by hand signals body movements rather than verbal. They they really don't care so much about verbal humans humans care about verbal, but humans care about the fluency of verbal, you know, you know, so so so that's so that's the whole thing. Dogs love me. So every time I walk in into an owner's house there. They're coming out to me and I'm giving them a bunch of treats and And I'm I'm consistent and I'm very fluent with dogs and dog communication. So it's very different. It's a different world.

Yeah, you're like fluent in the dog world, but not in the human world. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. I think we all need to be in the dog world. We only did in the dark world. And also as you're saying if dogs are more atone to body language humans should get better at that.

Yes. So a lot of my communication to to people yeah, a lot of my communication to people is is you know, it's not just fluent. I mean, it's not just verbal for me. It's like I I communicate through body language as well. And you know, I get them to do stuff, you know, like like I I like there are times I all all practice with with having a dog sit and down and touch and touch my hand and then I'll give the the owner the reins and say and say go ahead do it, you know. So a lot of it is is like a show and tell type of thing. So as long as the owners are able to

See what I'm doing, they can replicate that and I coached him through through that stage and it's just easier for me to navigate Communication in that way by just a show and tell

Maya:

and you you mentioned but before we we started recording about you doing a big speech at the Pet Expo in 2018, and as a stutter, I can like that just seems so intimidating like like how did that happen that big speech at the Pet Expo?

Steven:

So the Pet expo well back then I I was very much. Very much a big dreamer, and I'm still a big dreamer now, but I was I was very much on fire here back then where where I wanted to to to help all dogs and shelters and I did that I creating a project where where I would have a team of trainers and groomers and a vet section photographers all all come together and and help the East Ocean shelters and help and help these volunteers get get get in all of One shelters. Um and and and be able to to make dogs more adoptable in that sense by it by can advertising them and training them and grooming them and you know, it's it was just this is this kind of massive volunteer project.

So I did that for for a bit. It was called to sit walk was the sit walking bark he event at at a local Houston shelter and and that grew into a more a more kind of massive thing where where it wasn't just an event or events. It was an it was now an organization in that sense. And so I I got recognized by by the Pet Expo and and I I asked it to do a speech on on dog shelters. And I I went up there I went on stage. And I was very confident at the time and I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna blow people away and and I I ended up stuttering like 98% of the way through

Ah, so so in a moment of being up on stage, I was I was like there was no blowing people away. It was more so like just me and my feelings. so however getting off this getting off the stage I It was very much an accomplishment and I was like, I was like Wow Stephen did that and it's something that that I would that I would totally I would totally do again and when you

Maya:

When you say that you were in your feelings, what what do you mean by that?

Steven:

Yeah. so You know whenever I'm talking to people even if whether it's you know a group of people or or just people just across to me whenever I do stutter. I I always question what what are they thinking, you know, are they just waiting for me to to just say the last word? You know are they are are they are they experiencing me as powerless in a sense, you know, like a knowledgeable uneducated especially my business, you know, where where I've spent hours on educating myself about dogs and dog behavior and dog Fitness. And and now here I am just I'm not even speaking clearly. I'm like like, okay and and am I the one too to to be speaking to them about this about this so So whenever I say I'm in my feels I'm I'm talking about judging myself. based off of what I feel people are, you know doing and looking at me as Yeah, because like I I know like whenever I've been on stage and speaking in front of an audience on a topic.

And I start to stuttering there's always that like look people give like wait what's going on? and then you just like you get in your head even more because you're like, oh no like are they gonna think I'm not You know, I'm unsure or something. So yeah,

Maya:

I have another like big. Speech coming up in November and I'm gonna be speaking to like over a hundred people. And they're gonna be all funders. So like so I'm like so scared about that. Huh? Yeah, it just gives me anxiety. Just thinking about it.

Jay:

Wow. It's a lot of people what extent are those feelings? Like expectations that you have for yourself and to what extent are those feelings due to perceptions of others.

Maya:

Yeah, I think Now that I've like thought about my sister a lot more I've realized that a lot of it is in my head. and a lot and A lot of it is just the pressure. I put on myself to sound fluent in situations where there's a lot of people. so it's less about the audience because like what I try and have been doing more is if I have to speak to a large audience and I'm not sure yet. If I'm going to do this in the November speech but usually I say I have a stutter before because it helps me take the pressure off but I don't think I'm gonna say that for that one because I don't. I don't know. I just feel a little weird about. saying that when it's like a room full of funders, and I don't know it just seems like such a unique situation that I'm just unsure about how to go about it.

But yeah, I'm I'm curious. Steven what you think about like perception versus like what's really going on?

Steven:

Yeah. Well, it's it's something I I like. I'm still I'm still kind of swimming in in a sense, you know, where where it's like, you know, what what what's what's perception on on my side and what and what is really going on and I've questioned people like afterwards, you know, just like I you know whenever I'm not stuttering I'm like I talked to them about about my about my my problems with with speech and a lot of them kind of surprisingly say say say that you know, like Like you're like you speak.

Fluently a lot of times and you know, we don't we don't really associate you as as as as as not is not fluent enough to to to where we can't understand you and stuff like that. So so a lot of it is is a is I think it's is more so me putting myself. Like I'm putting I'm putting more on me than what and what and what's real something. I'm curious about congrats to what you just said when people go up to you and say, oh I didn't realize you had a stutter or you see blue in enough to me like that. How does that make you feel do you feel like that's denying part of who you are or do you feel good about that? You're like, oh, okay. I passed because passing can be complicated.

Jay:

I mean, I'm gonna just say Maya when I met you I'm gonna be really honest. I had no idea you had a stutter and doesn't mean you weren't stuttering. It means that either I just didn't notice or all or you were passing in some sort of way until you mention that you had a starter until you mentioned your podcast about stuttering and I don't know how it makes either of you feel people around you. You don't notice the stutter or think that okay. Yeah, you're just talking just like anyone does everyone trips on their words sometimes but you're just talking. I don't know. I wonder what both you guys think about that

Steven:

For for me for and especially for the longest time. It was it was is yes, perfect I passed. It's like it's like yes, I'm normal. So You know, so so that's how so that's how it appeared to me is I as I as like as I is like, yeah, perfect. I've done it. I've fooled you, you know so so that so that that goes into you know, that that whole bridge that I've said before where it's like it's like it's like yeah, it's on fire. I get I get to know that the alternate route and nobody is gonna know that I stutter nobody. I don't make it clear. I walk into people's houses all the time, you know, and and I do not I don't say I've said everything I'm saying here. I'm here for your dog. And and like the storage is gonna make its way through either way whether I pronounce it or not, but I can at least like I I at least try to hide it.

Maya:

Yeah, same here like even when I met you to Jay. sometimes like I don't really realize that I'm like trying to be as fluent as possible because sometimes it just comes naturally because that's how I've trained myself. My entire life is to like not stutter. And so especially in the conference environment. I just feel like well, I mean I have a I have a thing that's as proud stutter on it. So So I'm like not as afraid. to stutter like podcast conferences But but yeah, I even though like I try to like stutter and be entreprint percent with myself. There's still that like automatic response. I have to like Being fluent because I've been like taught my whole life that stuttering's bad and like fluency is the goal. And so I'm slowly learning how to like undo a lot of those. a lot of those tricks that I've taught myself and so when I stutter I actually welcome it like I try to welcome it because it's almost a sense of Freedom where I'm like I'm tapping into something inside myself. That's like me and like something that should be welcomed.

Jay:

That's really beautiful.

Steven:

Actually, where where you're at right now about welcoming a Sutter is is where like I'm entering as well where Oh, I I like as of recently. I mean I I kind of thought I was the only one in the world that stuttered, you know, as I was very much alone in this and because all my friends spoke, you know, very fluent in my in my Social Circle and I remember just recently maybe a about a month ago. I Googled people who stutter near me and I found I found there was an NSA meeting which is the national. Stuttering Association it was it was a meeting at at he and and a college campus and it ended up going there and it I got to to meet. Other people who also started and and what they deal with and how they deal with it. And I was like, I was like I I app for for the first time I realized that I wasn't the only one that really went through a lot of this. It was just like I would like I was I was part of a belonging. And I and I enjoyed it.

Maya:

Yeah, that's awesome. It's always. Super emotional the first time you're in a space with other people who stutter before we head out.

Is there any last minute thoughts you had Steven?

Steven:

Yeah that they're the reason why I wanted to be on this is it definitely inspired me, you know the like I I I've listened to to to other podcasts for forever other episodes for from you and I was definitely inspired so much that that I put props that are on my on my website now, so it's it's a dog behavior is like it says I can I Behavior consultant a dog fitness trainer and proud stutter. uh, so it's it's a like

I get to kind of be one with myself now and I've I've learned that you know, Steven is Steven, you know and it like there there are times. I also speak, you know, very fluently in times. I don't and they both they're both perfect and for for for for the first time like

I I see that bridge on fire and I want to go through it and I I welcome my stutter. I kind of want it. I kind of want to stutter because I want to go through it. You know that the whole alternate route just go through it and you know, it's Yeah, man on fire you

Maya:

Well, thank you for sharing that and thank you both again. This was really fun. And that's it for this episode of proud stutter. This episode of proud stutter was produced and edited by me my tube cough. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah chupkov. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode visit us at www.proudstutter.com, and if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast want to leave us a voicemail check out our show notes for the number to call in more importantly tell your friends to listen to until we meet again. Thanks for listening be proud and be you.