Media Making with a Stutter & Being A Child of a Speech Therapist

Transcript

[00:00:00] Are we still ourselves without our stutter? I, naturally, I'm a very energetic, loud, and excited person, but sometimes I feel like having a stutter forces me to be more relaxed and even keeled because if I'm not, then there's that risk of like stuttering. And so, yeah, I'm just like, something that I keep thinking about is like, Where deals like personality and stutter intersect.

I'm Maya Chupkov, and I'm a woman who stutters. Welcome to Proud Stutter, a show about stuttering and embracing verbal diversity in an effort to change how we talk about it, one conversation at a [00:01:00] time.

Hello, before we get into today's episode, I just wanted to say I am fresh back from Sundance and it was such an amazing week. I watched 11 films, met the most amazing people, fellow filmmakers, and we had such a successful event with the National Ability Center. and the National Stuttering Association's, um, Salt Lake City chapter leader.

Um, we're going to be posting some of that content on YouTube in the coming weeks. So please check out our Proud Stutter YouTube channel, monitor that for, for some coverage of that. And yeah, we are planning a bunch of events for this year, and we might be coming to a city near you for a community building event.

So please keep up with our newsletter on the [00:02:00] podcast. We'll be releasing some of those updates here. So yeah, for without further ado on to the show. Welcome back to Proud Stutter. I'm your host Maya Chupkov. Today we have Ben Miller. Ben is a videographer, a person who stutters, based in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Ben, welcome to Proud Stutter. Hi Maya, it's great to be here. It's great to be here too. I just saw you in Utah and it was so awesome seeing you in person. Ben and I met. This past week at Sundance, um, I invited him to our event, which took place in Park City during the festival. Yeah. So, so I remember being really excited whenever you reached out on LinkedIn.

I remember that we, uh, we had gotten connected on, on LinkedIn. [00:03:00] A couple of years ago, um, through the community of people who stutter on LinkedIn. Um, and yeah, I was really excited that you reached out one that you were going to be in town and two that you were hosting a proud stutter event up in Park City.

Um, and it was really great being there. Um, it was great seeing. Um, your face and, um, in person, it was great getting to see the proud stutter brand in person and yeah, it just felt like a good sense of community that was there. That was the largest amount of people who stutter that I've ever been in the room at the same time with though.

Tell me what that experience was like seeing and hearing other people who stutter. Yeah. I mean, I think it, it, it really. Uh, is a good example of how powerful representation can be. Um, I think typically in my [00:04:00] day to day, I get by a lot of my, my interactions with my stutter being very covert. And so one, I think being able to be in a room and have conversations with people who I knew understand the little ticks that come along with having a stutter, um, certainly made me feel more comfortable in being able to.

Speak more openly, but I think also just like hearing that too. Like I go through so much of my day, not actually hearing people who stutter. And so having that sound really familiar, like. I think was really just, uh, very comforting. We had together this sizzle reel of our upcoming documentary specifically for that event.

And for me, it was scary because, like, we were showing this to, like, people who were kind of [00:05:00] outside of our, like, immediate film team. And it's always scary when you're kind of putting your Your art out there for people to like judge and and have an opinion on But yeah, I'm wondering like what like what you were feeling when you were watching That that real in the room I think watching your real being played in front of a room seeing you present in front of a room and then also seeing just How well produced your real was as well like being able to see People who stutter represented in media, um, again, is, is it's not very common.

And so I, like, I certainly felt inspired watching your reel and getting to watch you and Tessa also watch how that was being received as well. I just thought it was really powerful being able to see like. You get to show this to a room full of, [00:06:00] uh, to a room full of, to a room full of people for the first time.

Um, yeah, I think it just felt really inspiring. After the event, we ended up meeting up again to see an incredible film, which was one of my favorites from the festival. Um, so I was there. In Sundance for a week, um, and the first few days I went to a bunch of events and really focused on like meeting people and going to panels and all that stuff.

And then the last three days of the, um, festival, I just packed in with films. So I ended up seeing 11 and the one that you and I saw was. Definitely in my top two. So it was just really fun being able to like, see a movie with you. Um, so yeah, what did you think about, um, about [00:07:00] Ricky? That was also the first movie that I ever watched at Sundance.

Um, I've lived in Utah for three years and I haven't yet gotten to attend Sundance. Uh, so I was really excited that. You invited me out to see a film with you. Um, but yeah, I mean, everything was enjoyable, like being able to go to the Rose Wagner in Salt Lake City was really nice. Um, and then also just having the intimacy of having the director up on stage as well and being able to know how, how big of a moment that was for them.

Um, and yeah, Ricky was an incredible film. Um, I felt a large range of emotionaries, um, throughout the entire thing. And I think it, it handled a person dealing with. Incredibly stressful situations very well. Yeah. And that, and the, the director of, of Ricky, [00:08:00] um, and I remember his first name, but I don't remember his last name.

So I'm just gonna look it up real quick. Um, okay. Yes. So the director Rashad fret actually ended up winning the director award at Sundance. So yeah, just like you said, Like seeing him like celebrate that moment and we were there and it was just really inspiring the fact that he comes from documentary film, I could really see that in the film of of how he incorporated a lot of like the style from documentary, um, I think really made it that more intimate.

Um, so yeah, that was, that was a great experience and yeah, I think like, it's definitely going to get [00:09:00] distribution, like it has to, like I could see this being played in theaters. Um, so I hope all of you get to see it soon at some point. Um, but, but I kind of wanted to switch gears because, um, after the film, we had a chance to kind of.

Talk about our stutters and. I came to learn that you have a lot of interesting stories around your stuttering experience. So yeah, I would love it if you can share a little bit about like your stutter and your family and, um, and yeah, what it was like growing up, um, with your stutter. Yeah, I think a couple of the primary things that have stuck out for me as a person who stutters, um, Have been the fact that my mom was a speech therapist [00:10:00] and for a time she was actually my speech therapist as well for about a year and a half in middle school.

Um, and as far back as I can remember, I. I began

having, having difficulties with speech when I was around six years old. Um, and I went through about 13 years of, uh, speech therapy from like early kindergarten through all the way to my senior year of high school. And that's a long time to be in speech therapy. I can't necessarily say that it was helpful for me one way or the other, but I think that.

It is an experience that is unique to me as a person who stutters, and also unique to people with any other kind of Uh, speech impediment or a disability. [00:11:00] Yeah. So I think that's, those are like the two primary things is having been in speech therapy for so long and having a mom, uh, who was a speech and language pathologist.

So I think having, having the constant reminder that I was being viewed in that way and listened to in that way, I think was a profound experience from a young age. Did you feel that, um, you were Like you felt pressure outside of the speech therapy room to sound fluent. I think one of the things that, that felt frustrating as a person in speech therapy, um, was just this constant need to slow down or start over.

Um, and that was certainly something that followed me home. Um, I think that my mom approached it well in a lot of ways and, and [00:12:00] more often than not was well intentioned, but. Yeah, certainly I felt like. That need to be cognizant of my speech and be cognizant of when and how I should correct my speech was something that stuck with me, I think a little bit more so than it would have.

It's yeah, I think it's just, it's so interesting that like your mom. Like, probably studied to be a speech therapist before she had you and then her child, you know, develops a stutter and, and, yeah. Um, so. So, like, were you able, were you ever able to, like, have a conversation with your mom about, um, your stutter and speech therapy and, like, your own personal views about that experience?

Yeah, you [00:13:00] know, I think, like, as time went on, I think my mom has been a really supportive person. I think especially when it comes to me pursuing opportunities of all types, but especially ones that encourage me to use my voice more. Yeah, I think just, just having her as a person who, um, is able to listen and hear me as a person who stutters, um, with, uh, the knowledge that she just has more experience speaking to people that have speech impediments, um, so no, I don't think that we've really directly talked about specifically the experience of being a person who stutters, having a parent who's a speech therapist, but it's Uh, certainly been an interesting one.

You're definitely the first person I've met who is a person who stutters and has a parent that is a speech language pathologist. [00:14:00] So that's super interesting and very unique. Um, and you also have a sibling who stutters, is that right? Yeah, it was, uh, um, one of my step siblings who is no longer a step sibling, but, um, we were living in the same house for about three years.

I think from the ages of like nine to twelve, um, and we were only six months apart and we both had a stutter and he was also one of the first people that I met who also had a stutter. And I think, um, especially because I think at the time. It felt like the way that, that we, um, it felt like the way that our speech impediment worked was very similar.

Um, and so I think that there was just like an understood and established camaraderie there. [00:15:00] Um, I think especially during that age range of like, it's already a very transformative age range and one that is already uncomfortable aside from having a speech impediment. And so I think being able to, to go through.

That phase of life with someone who also had a stutter, we just had an established rapport that allowed us to really give each other time and space to stutter, which was also not not an environment that I really had had outside of speech therapy. So having a friend where I could openly stutter. And not be afraid of that and also not be afraid that it would be misunderstood, um, was great.

The first time I had met someone else who stuttered, um, it was a classmate and I just remember wanting to be as far away from that person as [00:16:00] possible because I didn't want people to, um, to like group me in with them because their stutter was a little bit more pronounced than mine. Um, although I think in hindsight, my stutter was more pronounced than I thought it was because I just didn't want to accept it.

That actually like that kind of brought back a memory for me to, um, one that I think has been kind of tucked away. But I, I remember, um, one time my mom had brought home like a DVD or a video of some kind that she had found like in her workspace. I don't know if it's something that she. Was using, but she brought it home and it was essentially, um, I don't remember the context, but I remember it being a series of interviews with people who stutter.

Um, and I remember it [00:17:00] being, um, really uncomfortable for me to watch that at home, I think, because as far as I can remember. Um, I had plenty of people that I went to speech therapy with, but I believe I was the only one who had a stutter. So again, just not having the opportunity to be in company with people who also stutter, that wasn't something that my ear, um, was readily hearing.

And so, yeah, I guess I'm just kind of tying, tying a connection between your experience of having a classmate who stuttered and just kind of like feeling discomfort and not feeling comfortable. Like acceptance around having a stutter. So therefore not wanting to identify with it or associate with it.

Speech therapy has evolved so much into like. Like it's, I, I, I'm, at least I'm hoping it [00:18:00] does like kind of going from like a fixing mindset to like, like, no, like it's like therapy isn't about fixing it cause there's no cure, but it's more about giving people tools to like lead more confident lives. Yeah, totally.

Cause I think all of my experiences in speech therapy were really directed towards trying to fix, trying to fix my stutter. . Um, like, and I also remember that that video too, being highly dramatized too. I like, I like, I remember, and it was like the topic of conversation was them having a stutter. And all of the people that were featured in the video did have more,

more,

they had more severe stutters than I felt like I had at [00:19:00] the time. So it was like all of the dramatization that was happening in this video was really just. Uh, dramatizing the intensity of the stutter. And so I think that was probably a large part of why it felt uncomfortable. But I think that that, like, also goes to show, like,

how, like, off the mark so much of that was back in the day and, like, how much work needs to be done in order to shift that mindset and how we approach

this, like, in particular. So you're, you're in the

Creative worlds and, um, and like when we were talking in Utah, you had told me that you've kind of found a great community of people who, um, are kind of in that like art world. [00:20:00] Um, and so can you tell me about, um, like moving to Utah and. And, and finding your, your footing there as an artist. Um, I did not actually go, uh, to college or at least I didn't actually go through with completing a degree.

So a lot of the career that I've kind of tried to forge for myself has been trial and error and has been a lot of like, kind of trying to fake it until I make it. Um, and that was very much my intention in, um, moving to Utah. Um, I originally come from. Pennsylvania. So Utah was a pretty big move for me.

And I didn't know anyone out here when I first moved. Um, and so moving out here was a large risk for me. Um, [00:21:00] and it was a risk that really, I think, took a couple of years to pay off. And it, it took until I began, um,

being able to meet the people that feel really impactful in my life and also being able to create it. Uh, the work and the video that I think, um, really makes a difference in my life and in other people's lives. Um, and it was when I came here that I discovered that I really, really enjoy making films and making videos that amplify the, um, art of other people and, um, other people's individual stories.

Um, I think has been really impactful for me. And since moving to Utah. I've worked primarily with people and in spaces that promote, um, both women and queer artists, um, primarily in Utah, which I think [00:22:00] is a really beautiful community of people that exist and thrive being queer. Um, in a place that has often not accepted that.

And what are you up to right now with your, with your

craft? Um, like what is something that you've creative race that you've created recently that you're super proud of? Uh, I work at an online university also doing video. And so I try and create as much as I can outside of that job. And when I look back at the past few years, like seeing how much I have been able to create in my time off from work, um, has been really incredible.

Um, one thing that I worked on recently was I shot. An art gallery, um, here in Salt [00:23:00] Lake at a venue called, uh, the gala for a friend of mine named, uh, Vita. And yeah, I shot the opening of the art show, which was a big party with a bunch of people. And we shot an interview after the fact, kind of her talking about her history as an artist, her talking about, um, all of the pieces in that collection and how they came together and.

Yeah. I think I spent about 40 or 50 hours on that video in the last month or so, mainly on weekends and evenings. Um, yeah. And we have that video in the show notes for folks to check out. Um, so being in media as a person who stutters, can you, can you talk about like what that's like being in the media and especially being a videographer and an editor and, um, [00:24:00] having to cut down interviews.

Um, like, and I think a part of what is so like profound about being like on a podcast like this that allows me to speak freely, um, having the knowledge of like how cutthroat and concise media has to be, and even being in the Position also of like taking interviews and having to cut them down and having to like cut out people's stutters in interviews in order to cut things down to certain time lengths.

That has been something I I've had to grapple with ever since I started the podcast, because it's kind of like. You want to make a podcast that's listenable, but also being authentic and yeah, there is this pressure in media [00:25:00] for like bite sized media. Um, but so this is actually perfect because, um, I, I was at my first panel at Sundance.

This kind of topic came up, not in trans, not like not in the way that this like stuttering is, but just like the, or wait, how do I say that? Um, so stuttering didn't come up, but the, this like, this, this fate or this phase, I guess we're in of like. People wanting to consume shorter form, right? Um, and the panelist, he actually was, um, he was the director who won the Academy [00:26:00] Award for, um, Best Documentary.

And in the Oscars last year, and he was saying how, like, it's only a phase, like people are going to get tired of short form and then they'll want to do long form. So I feel like instead of really. Um, like instead of thinking about, okay, like how do we conform our art so that it's approachable and more people want to consume it, I think it's okay to, um, to do long form and to not feel that pressure as much because a lot of art art.

Okay. It's like historical records and people, generations from now [00:27:00] are going to be looking back and wanting that content because like people's conceptions have it change over time. And so just because people might not want to consume it now in this generation, who knows what the response is going to be, you know, in the future.

So I know that's kind of. Not the most cohesive way of explaining it, but that really resonated with me in that you know because for the the real for example, we had to cut it down from 10 minutes to Like a minute and a half and to do that as you know You've probably edited to to do that on top of people stuttering is just Really hard.

So, um, so I think it's a really good conversation to be having. And I, I, I [00:28:00] definitely want to keep having that conversation because putting stuttering in, in any, in editing, it's just, it's, it's a, it's not very straightforward on how to handle that. Yeah, I'm sure it's, and that's not something that I've had to deal with personally or that I've had to address personally, but.

Looking at, at like, um, your film, is that like you are taking a unique challenge, which like is taking a massive amount of content and like even trying to condense that into a feature length film is going to mean having to cut out a lot and having to use your discretion. I mean, that's something that I've always wondered about.

Um, Like, I think even just your podcast is how to edit that while keeping in mind, like leaving in the authentic ways that people speak. Um, because so often as an editor, I am trying to [00:29:00] approach things from cutting things down to be as concise as possible and as quickly paced as possible, not leaving the natural pauses in for when people speak.

And yeah, I guess like I'm really frequently editing out people stuttering. Um, and so. I think that's just like a unique thing that I haven't had to approach yet. Yeah. And I think the beauty of podcasts is that you can really do whatever the hell you want. Like, and so like, I don't put that pressure on myself, um, as an editor to.

Um, to be concise. Um, but I totally like can, can like feel that, you know, urge, like as a professional and someone that's. [00:30:00] Delivering, you know, uh, some, you know, a project and, um, and approaching videos. Um, with that lens, but I think like, I've only ever done this for fun. So I've never had that pressure put on me.

Um, but, but yeah, that's why I'm so thankful for podcasts. Cause it's really allowed me to like, not put that pressure on myself and to just, even though like an episodes may be a little longer than, um, then I, my, my goal was, I always. Um, I always just try to always, um, make the podcast be as authentic as possible.

And. Um, sometimes that can overpower the need to, [00:31:00] you know, keep it under 30 minutes, which is always my, which is always my goal, but sometimes, um, I don't have time to edit it as much as I want and all that stuff. So any thoughts around like moving through. That space and like developing your, your, your, your, your craft as a person who stutters and like, maybe like how it can be an asset even to have a stutter in this industry, I think in more ways than not being a person that has, and this is a side tangent.

I, I can't, I can't say the word stutter. It's like, that's one of the most difficult words for me to say. Yeah, being a person who has a stutter, I, I think more often than not have felt like it has caused [00:32:00] me to be really intentional with the ways that I speak and to take my time, um, trying to craft what I'm going to say before I'm actually saying it.

And I think outside of the realm of having a stutter, that is a valuable skill in communication by itself. And I think that is one that does translate. Into the film industry. Um, like, and I think into all industries too, but like just speaking on my behalf and on my experience, um, being in a creative role, it does require me to use my voice and also to be able to use my voice on the spot too.

And that can be really intimidating. I think as someone who stutters because it's stressful at times. And I think when I'm on the spot, that's more often when I have difficulty speaking. Um, Really [00:33:00] taking the time to hone in my work as an artist and the kind of spaces that I want to be in I think has also helped me to gain confidence in the way that I pursue that art and so much of that does have to do with the way that I'm communicating with people, whether that comes to actually physically interviewing a subject or whether that comes to having to voice changes that I want to have made on set.

Um, I think that it's, it's all a really valuable tool just being in environments in which I'm constantly using my voice. And constantly paying attention to the things that I want to be saying. One of the themes in the reel that we showed was like, Is the stutter really me or not? You know, like, um, you know, cause like, Our stutter isn't [00:34:00] our personality.

But it's also, like, part of us, so, like, are, are we still ourselves without our stutter? I, naturally, I'm a very energetic, loud, and excited person, but sometimes I feel like having a stutter forces me to be more relaxed and even keeled, because If I'm not, then there's that risk of like stuttering. And so, yeah, I'm just like something that I keep thinking about is like, where deals like personality and stutter intersect.

That is something that I think about often. Um, and I think especially like in the last few years, having made progress when it comes to like accepting. How I stutter and being more accepting of, um, being [00:35:00] able to freely do that in public because generally speaking, like what I tend to struggle with tends to be very block heavy.

And I think a lot of that really comes from trying to hide my stutter. Um, so through a lot of my adult life. It has been very covert, and I have been able to navigate through a lot of relationships, um, with people not knowing that I stutter, and so that is always a thing that I, I have recently been more open with in telling people that I do have a stutter, and I think more often than not, the response that I'm met with is, um, that I didn't even notice, or like, it's okay, like, I didn't notice, and I think that that always, like, It makes me think about that response a lot because I think so often does it feel like I'm being told that it's okay [00:36:00] because they can't hear it and not that it's just okay, like in general, I mean, like, I guess first and foremost, I don't necessarily need to be told that it's okay and when I'm explaining to someone that I have a stutter, I'm not apologizing, but I think that is certainly something that like I have been trying to identify with more and I think it is hard for me to understand how that fits in, not only with my own personality and how I perceive that, but also.

Really feeling honored in the way that people are perceiving me. Yeah. I love everything you just said, because, um, sometime, cause I get that response almost every time I disclose to, and I'm always like, why does that response bother me so much and it's in you articulated it so [00:37:00] well, like it's because. Um, the reason it bothers me is because people are saying, yeah, it's okay because they don't hear my stutter rather than it's okay that I stutter.

Like, I think also because my speech is so block heavy that, that like oftentimes feels like the, the most misunderstood representation of people who stutter. Um, like, and like I said, I don't know how much of those blocks come from me trying to hide it so much and almost like at certain times in my life being unwilling to speak if I know that I will stutter on a certain word.

Um, but even like, like, I think we talked about this when we were in person, my name being a really difficult thing for me to say, and I think you mentioned that that is a really common thing with people who stutter. [00:38:00] Um, and I think so much of that is because my name starts with a B and B being like a hard consonant, that being very difficult to say, um, when I'm experiencing blocks.

And I don't know if I showed you this, but I, I like recently got my name tattooed on my arm. It, I think, has always been confusing for people, too, because they don't understand not only, I think, what it's like to have a stutter, but to, like, have something like a block where it's, like, my name is something that, like, even if I tried as hard, like, as I could to force it out, there are some times where I just won't be able to say it physically, um.

And yeah, I've had a lot of interactions with people in which I have not been able to say my name and I have actually had to like, like, and first interactions with like, I can't say my name, but like, you'll find that out [00:39:00] at a certain point, or like, I have to type it out for them or spell it out for them.

Um, and yeah, so I got my name tattooed. I mean, it's like right on my arm here. So when I like shake people's hands, it's like front and center. Wow. That is wild. Oh my God. Oh, when did you, when did you get that tattoo? I got it in September of last year, but I had been thinking about it for a long time. I've had people that really can't understand it where I've said like, I can't say my name, but like, here, let me pull up my sleeve and we'll show you on my arm.

And it's like such a foreign concept to people, but it's something that I deal with on an everyday basis. And so I think it. It's hard. It's hard having something that is so real for me be so foreign and so difficult to comprehend for so many people But it's such a hard thing to help people understand and so that's why I'm just hoping like art like [00:40:00] Podcasts and film can really help bridge that understanding.

So we'll see how that goes.

Um, well, Ben, thank you so much. This was. Great. And, um, yeah, it's just nice being able to talk with you so soon after we, we met in person and, um, and yeah, thank you for jumping on so, so soon after coming back from, um, Sundance. I really appreciate it. Yeah. It was really great to meet you in person. Also get the talk on the podcast as well.

And that's it for this episode of Proud Stutter. This episode of Proud Stutter was produced and edited by me, Maya [00:41:00] Chuka. Our music was composed by Augusto Denise and our artwork by Mara Ezekiel and Noah Chuka. If you have an idea or want to be part of a future episode, visit us at www. proudstutter. com.

And if you like the show, you can leave us a review wherever you are listening to this podcast. Want to leave us a voicemail? Check out our show notes for the number to call in. More importantly, tell your friends to listen too. Until we meet again, thanks for listening. Be proud and be you.